Heel/Toe shifting question

[wheelhopper]

Well this is the area that my instructor at my last NASA event told me to work on. Is there any good resources that anyone would recomend to help nail this? Also, would it be helpful to modify my pedals to ease the learning process? I am just curious to see what made this skill easier for other drivers to master.

 

[dtheo]

I just did some google searches: found 2 vids and some tech. I roll my foot rather than using my heel, I need to sharpen my skills so you don't even have to think about it.


http://jalopnik.com/cars/notag/a-little-technique-goes-for-miles-268950.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPj9XXW25GA

"Heel Toe cannot be done smoothly unless two things are done:

1) The pedals must be matched. Normally this is done by adjusting until the brake and throttle are even in height, when the brakes are pressed on. The pedals must also be properly spaced. In my car it required adjusting and bending the gas pedal until I got the match I needed. In many cars, the pedals have some range of adjustment, making the process easier. One thing to remember, as you adjust the gas pedal, make sure that there is a mechanical stop for the pedal. If you rely on the stops in the carburetor or injection system to stop the motion, you will probably bend or break something as you try to squeeze a couple more horsepower out of the pedal. Also, make sure the linkage allows the butterflies in the carburetor to be fully open when the pedal hits your mechanical stop. (I personally don't think pedals have to match, I do it fine in my unmatched mustang pedals but this was on the web)

2) The technique must be practiced. Do not come to the track, with the intention of learning to Heel Toe. Learn the technique on the street, and practice it until it is second nature, before trying it at the track. If your street car is different from your track car, and your street car has a manual transmission, set its pedals for Heel Toe, and learn the technique. Try to get the pedal arrangement similar for both cars. If you must learn the technique in your track car, make it low on your priority list. When driving the line is second nature, you are comfortable in traffic, you’ve got all of the corner stations figured out, start working on it.


Heel Toe is not a required skill at your first event or two, as a matter of fact, you don’t ever have to learn it. It is a tool that will make you a smoother driver (ie. faster!), and you will be easier on your equipment. It’s a tool to add to your arsenal of skills as your high performance driving becomes more polished."

 

[wheelhopper]

^ Thanks for the info.

While you mentioned that heel/toe is not required skill to ever know, I got the opposite impression from the NASA event I attended. The trainers rate the driver on his/her abilities. Depending on the skills that the driver has and the ability the driver is able to use various skills determines the HPDE level they can obtain.

Besides, if it makes me get around the track faster and smoother, I want to do it.

 

[dtheo]

good shoes helped me a lot. Simpson sells good racing shoes.

 

[Fast99Snake]

mustang pedals just suck
better have good flexibility in your ankles otherwise your f%%%ed pretty much
i heel toe my daily corolla pos with ease and it still takes a little thinking to twist my foot enough to do it on a stang

 

[9746Cobra]

The mustang pedals sure don't make it easy.

I roll my ankle over too. Sometimes I get the gas pedal sometimes I don't. I try to downshift and let the clutch out as close to my turn in as possible to be easier on the synchros.

You oughta feel the pedals in a WRX STI, they are perfect!

9746C

 

[BlackBolt9]

I've talked to several several WINNING racers that don't feel the need to heal toe. The way I understood it is that it is a skill you need to learn if you ever plan on driving a racecar with a trans that has straight cut gears with no synchros. Some people say you need to heal toe a stock tranny because its easier on the synchros and others say you will have to replace them anyways and don't worry about it.

I haven't driven anything with a clutch on track but I heel-toe every downshift on the street for the practice in case I ever get the chance;-)

A book I read on it said to start by practicing in your driveway, first with the engine off just working on the foot motions. Then turn the car on (leave it in neutral) and practice holding RPMs while modulating the brakes pedal. Then practice bringing the car up to RPM from idle while working the brake pedal. Finally work on shifting through the gears and doing it in a big clear parking lot and then on the street. It seemed to work alright for me but I can imagine you would have to relearn to a certain extent whenever you jump into a new car where the pedals are a bit different:thumbsup:

 

[Lumpydogs]

My cobra brake and accel pedals are not very close together and I have a small size 9 shoe that made conventional heel toe a bit difficult. I solved this problem with to easy adjustments.

1) Raised my accel pedal approximately 1/2" to make it higher than the brake pedal.

2) I use the ball of my foot to brake and swing my heel over to stab the accel pedal.

p.s. Good shoes (i.e. Simpson racing shoes) make it easier to heel toe and improve the feel of the accel pedal.

After some practice you should be able to match rpms by sound alone.

Also I changed to rough machined billet aluminum pedal covers to prevent slippage during heel toe.

Hope this helps.

 

[dtheo]

^^^^^^^^^^^^How did you raise your accel pedal 1/2 inch?

Thanks.

 

[ac427cobra]

^^^^^^^^^^^^How did you raise your accel pedal 1/2 inch?

Thanks.

I did it with an adjustable throttle cable bracket:

Sorry for the big pic. I'm out of town and can't deal with it on this POS laptop.

 

[dtheo]

^^^^^^^^^mmmmm, I might have to do that^^^^^^^^^^

 

[brkntrxn]

Here is some info from when Anthony (2881) did the nylon spacer a couple of years ago.

He may have more insight to this.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226734&highlight=pedal

 

[dtheo]

Anthony, how come you never told me about this!! I will be calling you soon!! LOL

Dave

 

[CobraRed01]

FWIW...I learned on the street. I use a different approach with arch of my foot on the brake pedal...rotate top of my foot 30 degrees (or so) to right and stab accelerator with toe. May not be conventional, but it works well for me. Pedal heights don't have to be the same here as you are pivoting with ankle...not rolling foot sideways and relying on close alignment only a foot-width away.

 

[sonic cobra]

I tried to use the accepted heel /toe method but the pedals are already pretty far to the right.. Finally came up with the same method as CobraRed01. Its just more comfortable for me. Seat/pedal position is terrible in the mustang. This means I have to take my heel off the floor but still more comfortable for me.
My Honda Civic is so much easier to heel/toe, but no where near as much fun

 

[racebronco2]

I had already installed the a spacer to raise up the pedal (also installed a plate on the gas pedal so that the pedals were closer) but since the pedal did not have a stop the pedal just bent a little (after a copuple of days)and it is at the same place as it was before. Tonight this thread gave me the idea of modifying the pedal with a stop and bending the pedal so that it was about 1" lower then the gas pedal normally and about 1/2 higher when the brakes are applied. Here are some pictures. Took me about 1 hour to fab and install.

Spacer on throttle cable

bracket for throttle stop

throttle stop installed

aluminum plate on gas pedal

Gas pedal installed showing the heights and spacing

 

[dtheo]

^^^^^throttle stop, is that help prevent you from pushing too hard on the throttle and over-revving? Or, is that an easy way just to push the throttle down as fast as you can knowing that it won't over-rev? I have never seen that.^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[gcassidy]

Here is some info from when Anthony (2881) did the nylon spacer a couple of years ago.

He may have more insight to this.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226734&highlight=pedal

OK, I gotta look into doing this when I get my car back.
I just end up rolling my foot to the side and effectively using the side of my foot for the throttle. Been doing that for years on the street because my car went through a period of stalling out on falling RPM, and now it's just habit.

 

[brkntrxn]

Dtheo - the throttle stop in Carlos' pics are to prevent the pedal from becoming bent again in the future and returning to the same place it was before. The other thing it will do for you is ensure you don't slam the butterfly in the throttle body open to the point of damaging it. It could work as a manual rpm limiter (ie think about the old school buses we used to ride as a kid), but I don't think Carlos is using it that way.

Carlos can chime in here if his intentions were different.

 

[gcassidy]

How did you guys bent the gas pedal? Do you need to remove it, or will a couple channel locks do it?