Harmonic Balancer Question

[99cobra09]

Will its time to change the harmonic balancer in the cobra, i looked in the autoparts and it seems like the GT harmonic balancer is the same as the Cobra one. They are different price but same Dorman part #.

What is an affordable, best bang for the buck harmonic balancer. I dont know if i should get the ones from Kragen, Dorman Harmonic Balancer.

 

[totheduals]

I wouldn't buy anything but a Steeda.
They worked with Ford designing the original ones that came on the car.
Not sure but would think the Cobra balancer would be different.

 

[99cobra09]

How much do the steeda balancers run for..

 

[tmhutch]

I would avoid the Steeda as well as any small diameter underdriven damper because they do not control harmonics properly. Unfortunately the Cobra has an oil pump assembly susceptible to uncontrolled harmonics and several engines have been destroyed from oil pump gear failure. Get either a stock replacement or an Innovators West or ATI Superdamper. Another option may be a fluid filled unit.

 

[99cobra09]

So the factory is good enough, my question is if the GT harmonic balancer the same as the Cobra Harmonic Balancer?

 

[tmhutch]

Sorry, I dont know. Go here:

Tousley Ford: Full line Ford, Lincoln, Mercury and Ford Racing Distributors. - SVTPerformance

Tousley Ford is an authorized distributor who is very helpful and has great prices.

 

[STAMPEDE3]

any small diameter underdriven damper because they do not control harmonics properly. .

QFT
There is the problem.

 

[kezell]

I swapped from a steed U/D damper to a ATI Super Damper and noticed a huge difference in smoothness.

 

[tmhutch]

That's fairly typical.

 

[OzzDOA]

Here we go again with the damper debate. Since there were "so many problems" with the Steeda damper they have changed the design and it now weighs more than the stock damper and the actual damper diameter is only slightly smaller than stock, the diameter of the pulley portion of the damper is what is smaller. I've had this very conversation with Jon Lund and he's said the only time he's seen the oil pump fail due to a damper is when the engine is run at or near redline for extended periods of time. If you are building a race engine then I agree go with the ATI or Innovators West piece. But if its for a street car that might see the strip a few times a year or some autocross the Steeda or March pieces are perfectly fine. Following the proper torquing procedures for the crank pulley/damper is very important and often overlooked so it's "tight enough". Plus the stock bolt is TTY and should be replaced when doing the swap.

 

[gmsux]

+1, just installed the newer style steeda, with the new Al flywheel and this my engine is smoother than it was, very noticeable.

Here we go again with the damper debate. Since there were "so many problems" with the Steeda damper they have changed the design and it now weighs more than the stock damper and the actual damper diameter is only slightly smaller than stock, the diameter of the pulley portion of the damper is what is smaller. I've had this very conversation with John Lund and he's said the only time he's seen the oil pump fail due to a damper is when the engine is run at or near redline for extended periods of time. If you are building a race engine then I agree go with the ATI or Innovators West piece. But if its for a street car that might see the strip a few times a year or some autocross the Steeda or March pieces are perfectly fine. Following the proper torquing procedures for the crank pulley/damper is very important and often overlooked so it's "tight enough". Plus the stock bolt is TTY and should be replaced when doing the swap.

 

[cobraetti]

I have the March 1158 damper/pulley, it is great

 

[Tarball]

March, I heared to many stories that Steeda was actually to blame for all the oil pump failures for having an out of round pulley. Until they revised them.

 

[tmhutch]

No, here go the Steeda nut swingers again with the damper debate. Why dont you guys go ahead and guine pig those new Steeda wonder dampers for us and let us know how it goes.

It's pretty tough to throw caution to the wind and blindly trust this company just because they've covertly admitted to marketing an inferior piece by completely redesigning it and quietly offering it in place of the original unit. It only took them 10 years. They havent even bothered making any claims regarding improved ability to control harmonics.

Nice for them you're willing risk your own engines to test their re-design but dont push their experiments on the rest of us.

 

[OzzDOA]

No claims that their pulleys control harmonics? Right from Steeda's site:

Our underdrive pulleys are the only pulleys engineered through our unique partnership in Ford's technology transfer program to have the proper torsional vibration dampening characteristics for your 4.6L engine.

The OLD Steeda pulleys were garbage, the new ones are much better. The problem is people spread misinformation based on obsolete part design. Yes, the ATI and Innovators West pieces are the best you can buy, but you pay a premium for them ($350 +). As I stated in my previous post if you have an extreme duty race engine you would be dumb not to run one of those two products. But for 99% of the Joe Schmoes on the street the less expensive March or Steeda parts will serve you just fine. I don't see why that concept is so difficult to understand.

FWIW here is the response I got from Jon Lund about this very issue:

I am Jon Lund and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night..... LOL

I have built several 4V motors but I have never seen any with oil pump gear issues related to the harmonic balancer or UDPs.

03-04 Cobra specifically have issues (very few) with the caged lower pulley being removed which removes front bearing support. The other contributing factory to most modular oil pump failures is the weak oil pump drive gear. The 03-04 Cobra gets alot of back lash coming in and out of boost and this beats on the drive side of that gear and eventually causes a crack and subsuqent failure.

Mike @ L&M engines in Hatboro, PA has machined and rebuilt many 2V/3V/4V combos. Those that have had oil pump failures have been due to a cracked drive gear and of those that I have seen its mostly due to over reving and front main support being weak and allowing the gears weak corners to fail.

There are several Companies that have nitrated and hardened oil pump drive gears and this has helped reduce some of the few failures I have heard of.

Thanks,

Jon L

I'd put more credit to Jon's opinion that it is more to do with over-revving the engine and inherant weakness in the oil pump drive gear than the damper itself.

 

[tmhutch]

The only concept difficult to understand is why you put so much effort into defending a company that, in your own words, supplied the modular world with "garbage" for ten years that resulted in 10's of thousands of dollars worth of damage to customers engines. That is what is difficult to understand.

So what if they have a new design. I wouldnt care if it was gold plated and whistled dixie going down the road. If Steeda wants to regain our trust with some type of guarantee that illustrates their willingness to compensate customers for any engine damage incurred as a result of their damper than fine, but I have to still ask, what about their 10 year legacy of doing nothing while knowingly selling a defective product? Says alot about the company if you ask me. I would rather spend my money with a company that has a little integrity and is willing to stand behind their product.

 

[OzzDOA]

How are pulleys any different from any other "performance part"? If you slap a part on any car from a Fiat Panda to a Mercedes AMG Black you are aware there is a risk of said part damaging the vehicle. Why do you think warranties are voided by aftermarket parts?

 

[Tarball]

How are pulleys any different from any other "performance part"? If you slap a part on any car from a Fiat Panda to a Mercedes AMG Black you are aware there is a risk of said part damaging the vehicle. Why do you think warranties are voided by aftermarket parts?

True, but how many companies are selling parts KNOWN to destroy engines due to their poor design?

 

[tmhutch]

How are pulleys any different from any other "performance part"? If you slap a part on any car from a Fiat Panda to a Mercedes AMG Black you are aware there is a risk of said part damaging the vehicle. Why do you think warranties are voided by aftermarket parts?

It's just ridiculous to attempt to frame this issue as if all aftermarket parts jeopardize an engines integrity when in fact most aftermarket parts improve an engines efficiency and integrity. H-beam rods, forged pistons, hardened oil pump gears, ATI damper, intake and exhaust mods. The list goes on and on. Even things like nitrous and supercharging are relatively safe when applied properly. And the inherent risk in their use is a little more tempting when were talking 100+ horsepower gains VS 3 - 5 hp for an underdrive damper.

I'm fairly certain you are somehow motivated either monetarily or otherwise (I expect you to deny this) from Steeda and I admire your dedication to the company but you'd be better served by advertising some of the many great products they offer that dont blow up engines.

 

[STAMPEDE3]

Keep it civil guys.