had motor built, rod knock,shop blames me
- Thread starter 2mchtoy
- Start date
01cobravortech
Banned
All you need is for that pickup to go dry for 1 second to have a real bad day.
hate to say it but not shop's fault
if your the one that crossed up the lines, then this falls on you. doesn't take but a few seconds to do some damage without oil between the parts.
I would say you, esp. if the engine was just put together it hasn't had oil run through it even once yet. Starving it for oil on initial start up is bad. Change the oil, fix the line, look for damage and pray. Maybe you didn't completely destroy it yet.
you built an engine under a grand?
Let's really analize this here. Saying 1 seconds without oil pressure is generalizing alot.
Also, what will crossing the lines do? Is that truely zero oil supply to the rod bearings?
In theory engines ALWAYS need oil pressure.
Fact is, I've seen them run without MANY TIMES..... and live.
Here are my examples.
Had a 70 Road Runner. 11 sec machine with a stock 440 short block. After launching oil pressure would drop to zero for about 2 seconds.
The oil would all fall to the back of the oil pan and the pick up would suck air.
Baffling cured this but we did for years before realizing and correcting.
Next ex. 383 Dodge Dart. Out racing, car suddenly running on 7 cylinders. Figure it's ignition, lets just drive it home. During the drive I notice 0 oil pressure. Oh well, made it this far, keep driving.
Broken rocker arm. Push rod falls out, lifter pops out of valley. No lifter equals full oil pressure feeding an empty lifter bore. ****. Pull engine figuring on replacing all bearings and machine crank. Guess what. Everything like new inside. Obviously some oil getting to bearings. Plus, no racing, just nursed it home. Engine still lives 15 years later.
Friend wants a Golf diesel. We go to auction. Outbidded on every diesel VW across the block. Last one is a non runner. Ran out of oil. Quicky lube left drain plug loose and previous owner ran it dry. Bought with intentions on replacing engine.
Just for pure laziness. Filled crankcase and no noises. AWESOME! After a test drive there was sadness. No power and no turbo whistle. Ah ha. turbo is seized. Replace ONLY the turbo and that car is still driving today.
Last one is after an oil change, even with a filter pre fill. There is a moment with no oil pressure.
Also, what will crossing the lines do? Is that truely zero oil supply to the rod bearings?
In theory engines ALWAYS need oil pressure.
Fact is, I've seen them run without MANY TIMES..... and live.
Here are my examples.
Had a 70 Road Runner. 11 sec machine with a stock 440 short block. After launching oil pressure would drop to zero for about 2 seconds.
The oil would all fall to the back of the oil pan and the pick up would suck air.
Baffling cured this but we did for years before realizing and correcting.
Next ex. 383 Dodge Dart. Out racing, car suddenly running on 7 cylinders. Figure it's ignition, lets just drive it home. During the drive I notice 0 oil pressure. Oh well, made it this far, keep driving.
Broken rocker arm. Push rod falls out, lifter pops out of valley. No lifter equals full oil pressure feeding an empty lifter bore. ****. Pull engine figuring on replacing all bearings and machine crank. Guess what. Everything like new inside. Obviously some oil getting to bearings. Plus, no racing, just nursed it home. Engine still lives 15 years later.
Friend wants a Golf diesel. We go to auction. Outbidded on every diesel VW across the block. Last one is a non runner. Ran out of oil. Quicky lube left drain plug loose and previous owner ran it dry. Bought with intentions on replacing engine.
Just for pure laziness. Filled crankcase and no noises. AWESOME! After a test drive there was sadness. No power and no turbo whistle. Ah ha. turbo is seized. Replace ONLY the turbo and that car is still driving today.
Last one is after an oil change, even with a filter pre fill. There is a moment with no oil pressure.
I wouldn't point the finger at the shop...
"If you got motor problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but rod knock aint one!"
OP, what was the cause of the first motors failing/rod knock?
This.
Though as long as you didnt run it long and just idle for a few seconds, youre likely not totally going to need a rebuild. Pull it, clean it out, throw new bearings in, and start it up.
dunno the procedure on 03/04 Cobra, but my dsm I hook a hand pump to a port on the oil pump and squeeze oil in until it shoots out of the reliefs in the head (you can just pop off the oil cap and view). I do this on any fresh motor or even one thats sat for a long time.
These motors did not have anywhere close to the tolerances of todays engines.
tighter tolerances = higher necessity for proper lubrication.
youre forgetting the oil pump is still primed after you change the oil. This means it hasnt sucked in any air. So when you start it next, it still has fluid inside to help create suction from the pickup to supply the bearings on startup. Not to mention that whilst you might be lower on pressure after a change, the bearing surfaces are still very well lubricated, unless youve taken a year or so between draining and changing oil. This is why I do the above.
OP, what was the cause of the first motors failing/rod knock?
This.
Though as long as you didnt run it long and just idle for a few seconds, youre likely not totally going to need a rebuild. Pull it, clean it out, throw new bearings in, and start it up.
dunno the procedure on 03/04 Cobra, but my dsm I hook a hand pump to a port on the oil pump and squeeze oil in until it shoots out of the reliefs in the head (you can just pop off the oil cap and view). I do this on any fresh motor or even one thats sat for a long time.
These motors did not have anywhere close to the tolerances of todays engines.
tighter tolerances = higher necessity for proper lubrication.
youre forgetting the oil pump is still primed after you change the oil. This means it hasnt sucked in any air. So when you start it next, it still has fluid inside to help create suction from the pickup to supply the bearings on startup. Not to mention that whilst you might be lower on pressure after a change, the bearing surfaces are still very well lubricated, unless youve taken a year or so between draining and changing oil. This is why I do the above.
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Hmmm. Sucks. So I am thinking turbo wasn't getting oil, the engine itself should of had oil pressure. You are talking about oil lines to turbo, right?
Drop the oil pan and see whats going on under there. Check mains and rod bearings.
Its your fault as the installer. You are responsible for every sub system that has to do with the engine. Oil cooler,radiator,water, pump fuel pump and even the full working electrical system.
The shop I use is very specific and upfront about it. They warranty 24/24000 but after I do an install the car has to go get a quick check by one of their guys before they will honor that warranty. They verify, the cooling system a manual oil pressure test and scan the computer to see all codes are cleared and all sensors are working.
I will give you props, it would have been easy to spin this thread into a different direction by "forgetting the line routing problems" Take your lumps and be more careful on the next one, we all make mistakes.
The shop I use is very specific and upfront about it. They warranty 24/24000 but after I do an install the car has to go get a quick check by one of their guys before they will honor that warranty. They verify, the cooling system a manual oil pressure test and scan the computer to see all codes are cleared and all sensors are working.
I will give you props, it would have been easy to spin this thread into a different direction by "forgetting the line routing problems" Take your lumps and be more careful on the next one, we all make mistakes.
So you've toasted two motors for the same reason?
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Do you know what it takes to build a 440 in a 70 chalanger to run 11s?
Plastigauge would disagree with you.
If the rod knock started within 15 seconds of first startup the guy/shop that did the rebuild screwed up, big time. However, if you messed up the oil system, you cannot expect the engine builder to be responsible. Basically the builder ****ed up (if it truly idled for only 15 seconds :dw
, but your **** up trumped his **** up.
What did you expect for ~$1000?!
, but your **** up trumped his **** up.What did you expect for ~$1000?!
he said stock 440 :shrug:
I didn't even bother reading past you paid $1000 for an engine rebuild.....
I had all the parts bought. all he had to do was check clearances and put it together. You think he should of charged more? and yes, it had a rod knock. That was the original problem. from what i was told the crank was sent out and polished.
The oil pump is working, correct??.. Sounds like a bad oil pump! Should have run for a while before knocking. Have you seen cash for clunker cars get blowed up, they go for a good minute or so! Full throttle, no oil, and the silicate solution in em
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