GM Needs a Bailout, aren't they some cocky people

[Luckyeod28]

I would usually agree with your assessment on a company having to sleep in the bed that it made, but this is different. They didn't necessarily make this bed, the government laid them in this bed, and are now raping them. Due to years and years of being told to spend money on CAFE standards, and safety standards out the wazoo, they are forced to cover ridiculous develpment costs. For that reason alone they government should provide assisstance, and stop screwing with the free market. If people want to drive "green" vehicles then believe me they will sell them and make a ton of money.

On another note, this money should only big given if renegotiating with the UAW is required, all of the taxpayers are going to give to this they should too. Their contracts are ridiculous. The japanese automakers don't allow unions, and guess what..... they are profitable. The workers also make a great wage for an unskilled assembly line worker, in the range of $20+ an hour in many cases.

This all seems pretty easy to me, especially since we've thrown 1 trillion bucks at banking and finance.

 

[crazy1one]

Bankruptcy would be the best option, mismanagement and failed products is what has led them to the shape they are currently in. The government needs to stop trying to prop up our debt based, consumption driven, false economy. These trillions upon trillions of unserviceable debt are ultimately only going to cause a harder collapse.

 

[chevysRslow]

I would usually agree with your assessment on a company having to sleep in the bed that it made, but this is different. They didn't necessarily make this bed, the government laid them in this bed, and are now raping them. Due to years and years of being told to spend money on CAFE standards, and safety standards out the wazoo, they are forced to cover ridiculous develpment costs. For that reason alone they government should provide assisstance, and stop screwing with the free market. If people want to drive "green" vehicles then believe me they will sell them and make a ton of money.

On another note, this money should only big given if renegotiating with the UAW is required, all of the taxpayers are going to give to this they should too. Their contracts are ridiculous. The japanese automakers don't allow unions, and guess what..... they are profitable. The workers also make a great wage for an unskilled assembly line worker, in the range of $20+ an hour in many cases.

This all seems pretty easy to me, especially since we've thrown 1 trillion bucks at banking and finance.

AGREE 100%... I don't understand why congress is pushing the whole green vehicle thing when nobody can make money selling them.

 

[Euphoric One]

Bankruptcy would be the best option, mismanagement and failed products is what has led them to the shape they are currently in. The government needs to stop trying to prop up our debt based, consumption driven, false economy. These trillions upon trillions of unserviceable debt are ultimately only going to cause a harder collapse.

Good to see you've read the thread and have a solid understanding of how bankruptcy works.

 

[ON D BIT]

the problem with gm is that they own too much and did not have enough cash on hand. did they have a 6 month cash on hand(could they support themselves for 6 months with little or no revenue?) for such an economic down turn? no.

they have too many manufacturers or too little cash or both. but so did the banking industry! why is the government funding the bank downfall but not gm? this in itself is the biggest question?

is the 700b that the banks got a loan or bailout?

 

[Cobra Jet 429]

if the government was smart they would tell the auto makers to dump the union then ask for help.years ago the union was good for the people but now different story . plus theses high paying execs. need to quit or take severe pay cuts. you DO NOT give a raise to a captain to the sinking titanic. well he has been with us for along time and its lonely out at sea . hell lets give him a raise .YOUR SHIP IS SINKING .IF THE GOVERNMENT WANTS TO BAIL ANYONE OUT it should be the tax payer .all the money for bail out i believe equal 50000. plus for every taxpayer.wow now thats a stimulus check.

They don't have the option to just dump the unions. And they are just part of the issue. Theres several issues really. Toyota and Honda don't deal with UAW at thier US plants, making it cheaper for them. The economy dumped on the big 3 as soon as they started turning things around. And the false stigma that Us built cars aren't as good as foreign cars. Go drive a brand new american car, Fusion, Malibu, sotin along those lines. They lead the Japanese and Koreans by miles. It's time to open some eyes in this country. And yes if GM fails, lots of honest hard working people will get ****ed. It's easy to say, yeah let the big corporation fall. What about the real workers? And then if they don't have money, they aren't going to support stores and things in thier areas, and those will fall too!
GM needs to sell Hummer, Saab and Saturn. and restructure the company to:
Chevy - economy brand
Pontiac - sports brand
Buick - econo-luxury brand
Caddy - the big daddy luxury brand
GMC - commercial only vehicles (we don't need a rebadged chevy with leather thanks)

Chevy - Aveo, Cobalt, Malibu, Corvette, Silverado, Tahoe, Volt, Impala, Colorado, Equinox, Traverse
Pontiac - G6, G8, G8ST, Solstice, Vibe
Buick - Lucerne, LaCrosse, Enclave
Caddy - CTS, STS, Escalade, SRX
GMC - trucks and vans with all the drivetrain to work, but no interior goodies, plane jane is fine here!
And offer hybrids for Cobalt, Impala, Silverado, Aveo, G6, Lucerne, CTS, STS and Escalade models.
Do that and up the quality some more, and there would be no reason for Gm to fail.

 

[crazy1one]

Good to see you've read the thread and have a solid understanding of how bankruptcy works.

I have and it’s good to see you have an understanding of how the economy works :rollseyes

 

[aoc racer]

^ its true, they did do it to themselves. Some people say GM will own both Ford and Chrysler at some point. That is the biggest crock o crap I have ever heard in my life. Ford has done well, because they have a significant number of brands which they can make money with and keep tabs on. They sold off Austin Martin, and Jaguar for a reason. They did not make money with ether. I could be wrong though.

your words make me happy

 

[Euphoric One]

I have and it’s good to see you have an understanding of how the economy works :rollseyes

Surely. By the way, how is that bankruptcy for Delphi working out? Have they emerged from Chapter 11 yet?

 

[crazy1one]

Surely. By the way, how is that bankruptcy for Delphi working out? Have they emerged from Chapter 11 yet?

That was then this is now, different companies, different circumstances, the overall picture is surely clearer than it was 3 years ago.

If any of the three could make it out of bankrupcy would remain to be seen however they are unsalvagable in their current state. Now if they restructure, eliminate the UAW fat, and oust the entrenched management that has run them into the ground they would stand a better chance of surviving the coming years and maybe be able to emerging with competitive products that turn a profit.

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

a company in bankruptcy still has to continue operations during the bankruptcy. please, tell me how they are going to ge the money to do that. if private lenders would loan them the money now then they wouldn't be asking the government for some coin, would they? so, basically, if they go through bankruptcy, they need federal money. if they dont go through bankruptcy, they need federal money. and do i even need to bring up the survey that was given to the public that said 80% of people would NOT buy a car from a company in bankruptcy? yea, they should have no problem making it through bankruptcy, right.

BTW, AIG initally got $44B from the federal aid package. on the day that it was revealed that their top execs visited a resort, congress announced that they were giving them another $38B. no one gives a shit that AIG has gotten $72B out of all of this, but, God forbid we give the automakers, what, $10k each??? i wonder if they took a commercial flight or drove to meet with congress? ****ing hypocritical morons.

and those gas guzzling pickup trucks that aren't selling? they happen to be the top 2 selling vehicles in the entire country for the year of 2008(F150 and silverado, respectively).

 

[crazy1one]

a company in bankruptcy still has to continue operations during the bankruptcy. please, tell me how they are going to ge the money to do that. if private lenders would loan them the money now then they wouldn't be asking the government for some coin, would they? so, basically, if they go through bankruptcy, they need federal money. if they dont go through bankruptcy, they need federal money. and do i even need to bring up the survey that was given to the public that said 80% of people would NOT buy a car from a company in bankruptcy? yea, they should have no problem making it through bankruptcy, right.

BTW, AIG initally got $44B from the federal aid package. on the day that it was revealed that their top execs visited a resort, congress announced that they were giving them another $38B. no one gives a shit that AIG has gotten $72B out of all of this, but, God forbid we give the automakers, what, $10k each??? i wonder if they took a commercial flight or drove to meet with congress? ****ing hypocritical morons.

and those gas guzzling pickup trucks that aren't selling? they happen to be the top 2 selling vehicles in the entire country for the year of 2008(F150 and silverado, respectively).

That's only if they decide to continue business as usual. Partial liquidation of their assets\brands would help provide the needed operating cash and eliminating the exorbitant labor costs would increase the profitably per unit. Even still it may be to late, they could have made these moves several months ago when they still had cash reserves but management was unable or unwilling to see the writing on the wall. It's going to take allot more cash than what they are currently asking for to turn these companies around, this is just a down payment once the government gets a vested interest in them it will be allot harder to turn them down in the future and they are probably counting on that presenting congress with lower numbers than is what is actually needed.

The whole point is I could care less if they go under or not the government trying to prop up these companies is only going to cause the economy to collapse harder than it would otherwise this ongoing trend of propping failed companies is creating a huge dollar bubble and it's going to be nasty when it pops.

Actually AIG has gotten $150B which I agree with you is total BS, they should have let them fall but the AIG bailout is a little different than the Big 3 because it's non inflationary where a Big 3 bailout would represent real cash to the system hence the huge opposition.

Wonder what the profit margin was on those trucks especially with all the deep discounts and rebates they have been offering on SUV's and Trucks

 

[crazy1one]

http://www.europac.net/media/Schiff-CNN-12-4-08_lg.wmv

Schiff nailed it, I like how he pisses the mayor off and he starts trying to divert and make personal attacks

 

[usmcrebel]

There is a REALLY big list. Way too many to type

wrong,

nothing is really out of reach even legally...Class III license opens a whole new world to gun ownership

 

[jfsram]

And the false stigma that Us built cars aren't as good as foreign cars. Go drive a brand new american car, Fusion, Malibu, sotin along those lines. They lead the Japanese and Koreans by miles. It's time to open some eyes in this country. And yes if GM fails, lots of honest hard working people will get ****ed. It's easy to say, yeah let the big corporation fall. What about the real workers? And then if they don't have money, they aren't going to support stores and things in thier areas, and those will fall too!

The quality of the cars is a whole other thread.

Let's focus on the subject here. Yes Cobra you understand the ripple effect 100%. The GM worker out of work. He's not buying Christmas presents. He's not buying coffee. He's not buying a new house or even a new car.

So the stores where he shopped is also going out of business. The coffee shop is done. Construction workers are laid off and the car plant can't sell their car.

Every time a foreign product is purchased. It's another spkie in the coffin. Oh and assembling foreign product in this country so it's "MADE HERE". It's supports the labourers but the profit still ends up in another country. So it's not quite the spike in the coffin but consider it a finishing nail.

 

[crazy1one]

The quality of the cars is a whole other thread.

Let's focus on the subject here. Yes Cobra you understand the ripple effect 100%. The GM worker out of work. He's not buying Christmas presents. He's not buying coffee. He's not buying a new house or even a new car.

So the stores where he shopped is also going out of business. The coffee shop is done. Construction workers are laid off and the car plant can't sell their car.

Every time a foreign product is purchased. It's another spkie in the coffin. Oh and assembling foreign product in this country so it's "MADE HERE". It's supports the labourers but the profit still ends up in another country. So it's not quite the spike in the coffin but consider it a finishing nail.

It's called deflationary spiral, due to it being self reinforcing in nature, and it is starting to pick up steam. Some forecasts are calling for 1 million job losses per month as early as next spring. This cannot be fixed, only slowed the government is trying as hard as possible to do this by proping up these failed companies however unlike inflation which can be fought with interest rate increases deflation is an entirely different animal and much harder to control. By pumping up the dollar through treasuries the Fed is playing a very dangerous game that could lead to hyperinflation. I am totally with you on foreign product purchases every time we use our credit card or take out a loan were putting money in the pockets of foreign investors who in turn produce more worthless crap for us to buy so we can again charge up our plastic and continue the cycle. America needs to become a country of production and not consumption unfortunately it will take a major change and reduction in the quality of life of the average American for this to happen which most Americans are highly resistant to, we want our big screens, $5 coffee, SUV's, McMansions, ect.

 

[Euphoric One]

That was then this is now, different companies, different circumstances, the overall picture is surely clearer than it was 3 years ago.

If any of the three could make it out of bankrupcy would remain to be seen however they are unsalvagable in their current state. Now if they restructure, eliminate the UAW fat, and oust the entrenched management that has run them into the ground they would stand a better chance of surviving the coming years and maybe be able to emerging with competitive products that turn a profit.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Thank you for voiding your own stupid argument. You're right though, it is a different company in a different situation. Delphi didn't take a hundred companies down with them like a Big 3 bankruptcy will do...and they still haven't emerged. Where did you get your economics or business degree?

I don't even know where to start with the rest of your idiotic logic. I give up with you idiots.

If you are against the loans for the auto industry, I sincerely hope you lose your job at some point, lose your home and that you get to see your children starve and freeze in the cold. That will be high comedy for me.

/Euphoric One on trying to educate retards on SVTP.

 

[crazy1one]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Thank you for voiding your own stupid argument. You're right though, it is a different company in a different situation. Delphi didn't take a hundred companies down with them like a Big 3 bankruptcy will do...and they still haven't emerged. Where did you get your economics or business degree?

I don't even know where to start with the rest of your idiotic logic. I give up with you idiots.

If you are against the loans for the auto industry, I sincerely hope you lose your job at some point, lose your home and that you get to see your children starve and freeze in the cold. That will be high comedy for me.

/Euphoric One on trying to educate retards on SVTP.

Great inspiring and informative post I love how you revert to personal attacks to get your points across, always the sign of a unprepared simple mind. Don't worry about me I'm set in a recession resistant industry. Thanks again for adding absolutely nothing worthwhile to your above ramblings

 

[svtfocus2cobra]

I'm starting to come to terms that this is it for the US economy. We do not have the right leadership in place to get us through this, and we have not properly prepared the upcoming generations to handle the situation we are going to be in. Do you really think our current leadership has what it takes to get us through this? I know we have some brilliant minds in government, but those minds are currently not in control, and two years is a long time to wait for them to get another chance.

Even if the auto industry makes it through this our leadership has shown that they are not willing to take the steps to allow them, US industries in general, or the US people to succeed in the future.

Call me a doomsdayer or whatever, but I think it's time to really get your shit in order and buckle down for some very hard times ahead.

 

[crazy1one]

I'm starting to come to terms that this is it for the US economy. We do not have the right leadership in place to get us through this, and we have not properly prepared the upcoming generations to handle the situation we are going to be in.

Even if the auto industry makes it through this our leadership has shown that they are not willing to take the steps to allow them, US industries in general, or the US people to succeed in the future.

Call me a doomsdayer or whatever, but I think it's time to really get your shit in order and buckle down for some very hard times ahead.

Your absolutely correct nothing doomerish about seeing what's right in front of you