Found my motor damage/knock noise

[BLWN03]

Cylinders 1,2,7,8. All the rod bearing's were toast just as i suspected...the crank journal on # 7 is FUBAR......all the pistons and rods looked perfect..some scuffing on the teflon on the pistons but nothing to warrant a hurt motor at all.

here's the pic's

 

[50 BMG]

Sorry to hear another 1 went down.

The people from "that thread" should send pics of their blown engines to the Ford engineers...

 

[unit213]

The people from "that thread" should send pics of their blown engines to the Ford engineers...

Why? Did Ford tell him to push it to 600rwhp?

That new shortblock is going to be fun! Still going to run the KB?

 

[BLWN03]

Why? Did Ford tell him to push it to 600rwhp?

That new shortblock is going to be fun! Still going to run the KB?

Eventually, but for now i have a steiggy stage3 eaton and some giggle gas...going to do some major upgrades over the next few months and shoot for 9's.

 

[50 BMG]

Why? Did Ford tell him to push it to 600rwhp?

Did I say it was their fault?

 

[JB]

Ford definitely knows what happens when you push these motors

I've been at the dyno and teardown rooms at Romeo Engine Plant and they do a great job....very methodical and scientific

all SVT motors replaced under warranty end up there for post-mortem inspection

 

[BLWN03]

Ford definitely knows what happens when you push these motors

I've been at the dyno and teardown rooms at Romeo Engine Plant and they do a great job....very methodical and scientific

all SVT motors replaced under warranty end up there for post-mortem inspection

Tell them to fix the all too common oil starvation problem these things have had since 96...lol

 

[HISSMAN]

Now give me a piston and rod. How much power were you pushing when you noticed the problem?

-Jeff

 

[BLWN03]

Now give me a piston and rod. How much power were you pushing when you noticed the problem?

-Jeff

617rwhp

rebuilding the motor bud sorry..it was in too good of condition to junk it.

 

[HISSMAN]

Poop.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Jason ...
Sorry to hear about your hard luck...(rather not say knock here)...

Engine forensics is a hobby of mine...I used to race.. and now work at a Linc/Merc dealer...

Although the 96 and up 32 valve DOHC Fords do have an oil drain back issue(less so after 2001).... I do NOT believe oil starvation is what hurt your bearings.

The main reason for that being the total and complete absence of any bluing on the crank, the bearing insert, or the rod.

The bearings are hurt.... no question!!! BUT WHY???

The excellent photo evidence you have posted allows me to presume that bearing erosion is the culprit.

2 things generally cause this...
TOO HIGH oil pressure
and
Coolant contamination corrosion

Although the oil did not look very good to me in the pics... It also did not have the classic chocolate milkshake look either...

I would recommend you get an idea from a trusted engine forensics guy before you clean everything up...

If it is oil pressure erosion.... very common BTW...
I recommend an oil temp gauge as well as a real oil pressure gauge...
And no WOT until oil hits at least 100F!!!

BTW the coolant temp is not a good way to tell if your oil is hot enough unless you add about 30 degrees F on a cold street motor...

After a hot soak(parked at full temp)... they tend to equalize and it's less of an issue...

Hope that helps... A little anyway...

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

And now the barrage of questions...

Are the inserts shown all uppers or a mixture?
Are the main bearings also eroded?
Is there any bluing that you can see that I can not?
Was/is there evidence of detonation on the piston tops or spark plug center electrode insulator?
Is there evidence of a sealing failure at the head gasket allowing coolant into the oil?
Have you used a Methanol based detonation suppression/intake cooling product?
Have you been using an extended oil change interval because of full synth oil usage?
Have you had a fuel rail pressure sensor fail ever? Was there a fuel smell in the oil after that event?If so did you change the oil immediately afterward?

Sorry .. but I'm hoping I can help prevent a repeat of this .... by finding the true cause... :beer:

 

[HISSMAN]

Jimmy, do you think adding to much oil durring changes could add in causing this? the reason I ask is that there are still a lot of people running 6.5-7 Quarts of oil in there Terminators. I always run 6 qts. no more, and I have never had any know problems, and my engine and valve train is very, very quiet. The only sound I ever here is the exhaust, and injectors firing.

-jeff

 

[RAZRS EDGE]

Jimmy, do you think adding to much oil durring changes could add in causing this? the reason I ask is that there are still a lot of people running 6.5-7 Quarts of oil in there Terminators. I always run 6 qts. no more, and I have never had any know problems, and my engine and valve train is very, very quiet. The only sound I ever here is the exhaust, and injectors firing.

-jeff

I was thinking the same thing...

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

No..
I don't believe an over full event can cause what are looking at...
In fact I run 1/2 a quart over full during track events to prevent starvation during hard cornering... since I'm running a stock pan and stock windage tray...
The rest of the time I run 6 quarts... I remarked my dip stick to read full at 6.

High oil pressure or a corrosive in the oiling system(coolant, fuel or Methanol) can cause what we are seeing...

 

[boosty]

how do you get corrosion in your coolant?

 

[ShelbyGuy]

antifreeze eats bearing shells. this engine was leaking antifreeze into the oil for a while, judging by the oil pics. it doesnt get milky right away. the butter needs a churning first.

 

[BLWN03]

antifreeze eats bearing shells. this engine was leaking antifreeze into the oil for a while, judging by the oil pics. it doesnt get milky right away. the butter needs a churning first.

So you think a head gasket was the culprit? I never ever blew a FRPS or had any sort of coolant get into my bottom end. Nor did i ever have any smoke out of the tail pipes. Also witht he naked eye the oil pan did not look like it does in those pic's...just blackend oil and metal shavings i would acknowledge a blown head gasket if that was the case, i have seen what coolant and oil mixed looks like many times before.

 

[BLWN03]

And now the barrage of questions...

Are the inserts shown all uppers or a mixture?
Are the main bearings also eroded?
Is there any bluing that you can see that I can not?
Was/is there evidence of detonation on the piston tops or spark plug center electrode insulator?
Is there evidence of a sealing failure at the head gasket allowing coolant into the oil?
Have you used a Methanol based detonation suppression/intake cooling product?
Have you been using an extended oil change interval because of full synth oil usage?
Have you had a fuel rail pressure sensor fail ever? Was there a fuel smell in the oil after that event?If so did you change the oil immediately afterward?

Sorry .. but I'm hoping I can help prevent a repeat of this .... by finding the true cause... :beer:

I'll have to get back with you on some of these but here's some answers to some.

1. Mixture
2. don't know didnt tare that far into it
3. some bluing from 2 and 8
4. no
5. no
6. no
7. no
8. no

 

[BLWN03]

Jason ...
Sorry to hear about your hard luck...(rather not say knock here)...

Engine forensics is a hobby of mine...I used to race.. and now work at a Linc/Merc dealer...

Although the 96 and up 32 valve DOHC Fords do have an oil drain back issue(less so after 2001).... I do NOT believe oil starvation is what hurt your bearings.

The main reason for that being the total and complete absence of any bluing on the crank, the bearing insert, or the rod.

The bearings are hurt.... no question!!! BUT WHY???

The excellent photo evidence you have posted allows me to presume that bearing erosion is the culprit.

2 things generally cause this...
TOO HIGH oil pressure
and
Coolant contamination corrosion

Although the oil did not look very good to me in the pics... It also did not have the classic chocolate milkshake look either...

I would recommend you get an idea from a trusted engine forensics guy before you clean everything up...

If it is oil pressure erosion.... very common BTW...
I recommend an oil temp gauge as well as a real oil pressure gauge...
And no WOT until oil hits at least 100F!!!

BTW the coolant temp is not a good way to tell if your oil is hot enough unless you add about 30 degrees F on a cold street motor...

After a hot soak(parked at full temp)... they tend to equalize and it's less of an issue...

Hope that helps... A little anyway...

I will look into getting the Oil temp gauge, where would a good spot be to mount the temp sender and where? If you look at the grouped bearings pic the oil you see sitting on the bearings themselves is what ALL the oil looked like throughout the motor...i think the flash from the camera is giving a false milkshaky look to the oil.



Jay