finally a camaro competitor to the boss

[Grant808]

Thats like saying Ford copied Porsche? Ever seen a gt3 rs?

Spoiler,splitter, odd wheel color, r compound tires, n/a engine. Not looking for an argument.

Irrelevant, and you know it.

If GM did this for MY 2010 or 2011, then it would be a different story. Ford did prove the market for the retro cars in 2005, and maybe 2001 with the Bullitt...

Govmint Motors needs to learn how to do business on their own. All of their copycat programs and 'ideas' are sad.

 

[04nccobra]

The 1LE visually looks great and although not what I hoped for if it is priced below 40k it will be a nice option. I do like the improvements to the transmission as well as rear-end, and the 3:91s should improve performance. The rims and rubber will help as well. But what I really wanted to see was a bump in hp and weight reductions which did not happen.

 

[GTSpartan]

Ford did prove the market for the retro cars in 2005, and maybe 2001 with the Bullitt...

Not sure Ford gets the credit here

I think the PT cruiser takes the cake for proving retro styling could work in the mainstream. Weren't those sold in the 90's?

 

[LostPony]

The 1LE option package is nothing new. You could say it actually has a longer (not older or more recognized) lineage than the Boss model.

GM focuses their attention on Corvette racing. The Camaro may never see the level of factory support that the Mustang gets from Ford. It takes a lot of money to factory back two totally different cars, and the vette will never go without.

GM also backs the Cadillac in racing.

I think Ford did prove the market for these cars. If the Boss wasn't a success, and were just sitting on lots gathering dust, you wouldn't see a 1Lanything coming from GM.

 

[ArabianOak]

Too bad its so dam ugly!

 

[TXPD]

pt cruisers were 2001 model cars.

 

[04nccobra]

Too bad its so dam ugly!

Ugly compared to what :shrug:

 

[GTSpartan]

pt cruisers were 2001 model cars.

Yea, you're right. It was unveiled in 1999.

Still way before the S197.

 

[GTSpartan]

GM also backs the Cadillac in racing.

They get table scraps in comparison to the Vette program, but you are technically right.

 

[GarageLogic]

Irrelevant, and you know it.

If GM did this for MY 2010 or 2011, then it would be a different story. Ford did prove the market for the retro cars in 2005, and maybe 2001 with the Bullitt...

Govmint Motors needs to learn how to do business on their own. All of their copycat programs and 'ideas' are sad.

Nothing new. The Camaro itself was simply GM's effort to capture some of the Mustang's market that it created back in '64.

Ford always seems to be first to market with performance versions of their cars. GM, not so much. Maybe Team Camaro would be better off getting a completely new set of "disciples".

 

[Devious_Snake]

looks like a ZL1 to me....

 

[GarageLogic]

Ugly compared to what :shrug:

Any of the other cars in its segment? I grant you that the current Mustang body style is getting a little long in the tooth, but for a car that just hit the scene in 2010, the new Camaro styling has gotten stale quickly. Outside of the GM fanbois and the scattered Transformer fans, it's really nothing to write home about. The ZL1 looks like it borrowed its front end from a BMW X5.

looks like a ZL1 to me....

..which looks like an SS, which looks like a base V6. Not a whole lot separates the various version. Probably by design to manage cost, but still pretty monotone to me.

 

[GTSpartan]

Ford always seems to be first to market with performance versions of their cars. GM, not so much. Maybe Team Camaro would be better off getting a completely new set of "disciples".

Other than the Stang, what other performance cars is Ford always first to market with?

 

[GarageLogic]

Other than the Stang, what other performance cars is Ford always first to market with?

Taurus SHO, Ford Raptor, SVT Focus, SVT Lightning....do I need to go on? In each case, GM responded to what Ford offered by placing an SS badge on one of their models but never matching them in performance. The CTS-V is about the only exception to the rule that comes to mind.

 

[GTSpartan]

Taurus SHO, Ford Raptor, SVT Focus, SVT Lightning....do I need to go on? In each case, GM responded to what Ford offered by placing an SS badge on one of their models but never matching them in performance. The CTS-V is about the only exception to the rule that comes to mind.

Do you want me to list the laundry list of performance cars/trucks that the other GM put out before Ford?

Oh, the lightning was definitely not the first sport truck and the SHO definitely not the first sport sedan.

 

[GarageLogic]

Do you want me to list the laundry list of performance cars/trucks that the other GM put out before Ford?

Oh, the lightning was definitely not the first sport truck and the SHO definitely not the first sport sedan.

Knock yourself out. Never said Ford was always the vanguard just that, in the last 20 years, it seems GM has tended to be on the reaction side of the equation versus the innovative side.

To be honest, Mopar has been more innovative than Ford or GM when it comes to getting new ideas to market, historically speaking.

I think Camaro fans hate the fact that their pony car was a response to Ford those many years ago and it eats them up inside whether or not they are willing to admit it out loud.

 

[GTSpartan]

Knock yourself out. Never said Ford was always the vanguard, just that in the last 20 years, GM has tended to be on the reaction side of the equation versus the innovative side.

To be honest, Mopar has been more innovative that Ford or GM when it comes to getting new ideas to market, historically speaking.

I think Camaro fans hate the fact that their pony car was a response to Ford those many years ago and it eats them up inside whether or not they are willing to admit it out loud.

I would agree with most of this. You could also make a case that Ford fans hate the fact that they've never really been able to catch the Vette for almost 60yrs, so the Mustang was the next best thing.

 

[GarageLogic]

I would agree with most of this. You could also make a case that Ford fans hate the fact that they've never really been able to catch the Vette for almost 60yrs, so the Mustang was the next best thing.

Maybe. Of course, the last time Ford set out to beat the Corvette, it did, in convincing fashion with the Ford GT. In that case, once again, GM responded with the Z06.

Ford fans may have an issue with the company not having an answer to the 'vette, but Mustang fans really couldn't care less. I am the latter, in case you wanted to know.

 

[GTSpartan]

Maybe. Of course, the last time Ford set out to beat the Corvette, it did, in convincing fashion with the Ford GT. In that case, once again, GM responded with the Z06.

The Z06 was locked in well before the GT was even thought about. They went to the C6 in '05 and the Z in 06.

Pretty sure the GT payed no role in that car. If it somehow did, GM did an incredible job offering basically the same performance for 1/2 the cost.

I'm sure GM would give up a whopping 2yrs for nearly 60 of dominance.

To argue who was really first to market is a bit silly I must admit.

 

[GarageLogic]

The Z06 was locked in well before the GT was even thought about. They went to the C6 in '05 and the Z in 06.

Pretty sure the GT payed no role in that car. If it somehow did, GM did an incredible job offering basically the same performance for 1/2 the cost.

I'm sure GM would give up a whopping 2yrs for nearly 60 of dominance.

Ford GT's were in owners hands as early as 2004, C6 Z06 did not hit the streets until late 2005 as a 2006 model year. As you stated the Corvette was an ongoing car build, so it is logical that it would cost less to build than the Ford GT. So be it. Now, let's see, which of those two cars is worth as much or more today than they MSRP'd for new?

It's not hard to dominate something when nobody else is competing with you. Sure, very early on the Corvette and Thunderbird were rivals, but after that, GM had the segment all to themselves. Not hard to be 1st in a one horse race.

BTW, still waiting on that laundry list.