extended lug lenth for spacers

[03kbredfire]

extended lug length for spacers

I have searched but have not found definitive info on the appropriate stud length for adding spacers. I am looking to widen stock wheels to 11 or 11.5" and space them out 1/2". I have currently spaced 1/4" on stock wheel with the use of extended thread lug nuts. Any further I would not have enough thread engagement. I saw through searches that there are the 7703 which is supposedly 2.5" but when cross referencing to summit racing the 7703 states to 3.5" under head. American muscle has studs which are the 7723 which when crossing with summit racing states they are 3.115" under head. So I removed wheel last night and measured the installed factory stud length at 1 3/8ths sticking out from rotor. I know if adding 1/2" spacer I will need roughly a 1/2" longer stud but do not know the stock under head length. Has anyone had success with using longer studs with closed end lugs. I would like the effort to remain stock appearing. Thanks.

 

[dale.baker]

Your stock lug nuts can be cut off at the very tip of the crown and will fit over an extended stud. I currently run 3" studs and Monster open lug nuts. But there is always the option to install the 3" studs and cut each stud to the correct length after you have your new wheels and spacers installed. This way you can use the stock lug nuts without modification with the correct length custom cut studs. Hope this helps.

 

[biminiLX]

I've widened the stock rears to 11" and took the advice of another member that 11.5" caused more figment issues, especially as I knew I wanted to run the 315/35/20 NT05Rs and 11" is all you need.
You're issue will be the closed lugs, but I think you're wanting the Steeda spec 2.5" ARPs that allow closed lugs.
I did a billet hubcentric 5/8" and love the flush fit, but I have 3" studs and open black lugs, the look I wanted.
Research the Steeda studs, I think that'll get what you want. Good luck.
-J

 

[biminiLX]

Also, I bent 2 studs running the spacers and the Nittos on a few 10 sec passes. I didn't plan on running the spacer combo at the track, usually it's direct bolt on 18x10.5" Racestars, so just a heads up if you want to drag on the spacers.
-J

 

[03kbredfire]

All helpful. I am looking to run a closed end lug. Now I am scared of the spacer due to "bending" comment. Even the ARP at 190,000 PSI tensil will exhibit this problem? I installed a set of 1/2" hubcentrics that I had laying around last night and it looks perfect in my opinion. Can not drive it this way as I only have 4.5 thread engagement. I am looking to run Nitto NT01's as tire of choice to reduce traction issues as much as possible. I would like to have Eric Vaughn widen to 11 or 11.5. Saw that maximum motorsport carries an ARP wheel stud (the 7723)

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/ARP-Rear-Wheel-Stud-2005-2014-Mustang-P1406.aspx

 

[HighTorque]

also, i bent 2 studs running the spacers and the nittos on a few 10 sec passes. I didn't plan on running the spacer combo at the track, usually it's direct bolt on 18x10.5" racestars, so just a heads up if you want to drag on the spacers.
-j

whats your opinion on racing with spacers on front wheels?

I am running a 3/8' spacer with extended lug nuts with factory rear 20" svtpp wheels up front with 275/35-20 tires.

 

[Catmonkey]

I'm running Steeda's 2.5" studs (made by ARP) with an 8mm spacer with closed end lug nuts. They're made by Gorilla, but I'll have to look up the part number. Not sure you couldn't run the stock lug nuts with a 1/2" spacer. I may have some pics on the 2.5" studs and fitment.

 

[Catmonkey]

I do have a few photos in my photobucket account that might help. This is the wheel with standard open-end lug nuts so I could determine how much thread contact I had. This was with a 1/4" and 1/8" spacer (3/8") total. Steeda on left, stock on right. The Steeda lug is making full thread contact, which you can't see in that photo. ON EDIT - I might have use two 1/4" spacers (1/2") based on a couple other photos. The exposed threads on the stock stud from the rotor was right at 1". The Steeda stud had exposed threads of 1.5".

Here are the Steeda and stock lug nuts side by side. Crappy photo, I know. I gound one side to make it easier to mount with the ABS ring.

These are the lug nuts I'm running. They're about 1/2" longer them stock IIRC.

Here's a thread I wrote on installing 11" widened wheels, if you haven't seen it.

 

[03kbredfire]

I do have a few photos in my photobucket account that might help. This is the wheel with standard open-end lug nuts so I could determine how much thread contact I had. This was with a 1/4" and 1/8" spacer (3/8") total. Steeda on left, stock on right. The Steeda lug is making full thread contact, which you can't see in that photo. ON EDIT - I might have use two 1/4" spacers (1/2") based on a couple other photos. The exposed threads on the stock stud from the rotor was right at 1". The Steeda stud had exposed threads of 1.5".

Here are the Steeda and stock lug nuts side by side. Crappy photo, I know. I gound one side to make it easier to mount with the ABS ring.

These are the lug nuts I'm running. They're about 1/2" longer them stock IIRC.

Here's a thread I wrote on installing 11" widened wheels, if you haven't seen it.

Thanks much. This is perfect info for making my selection. I had found over the weekend that Steeda has proprietary wheel studs made which seem to have a very similar part number to an existing stud but indeed are 2.5" including the tip. The stock is supposedly 1 1/2". So 1" longer with a 1/2" spacer should work perfectly. The closed studs have 1 3/4" internal length. I should have 1 1/4" inside the lug and therefor a 1/2" freeplay. Now if they are available. Thanks for all the useful input and pics.

 

[Catmonkey]

You'll note that the last 1/4" of the stud on the OEM stud is not threaded, so there really is only 1" of threads beyond the rotor surface. At least all of them were like that on my 2012.

 

[biminiLX]

All helpful. I am looking to run a closed end lug. Now I am scared of the spacer due to "bending" comment. Even the ARP at 190,000 PSI tensil will exhibit this problem? I installed a set of 1/2" hubcentrics that I had laying around last night and it looks perfect in my opinion. Can not drive it this way as I only have 4.5 thread engagement. I am looking to run Nitto NT01's as tire of choice to reduce traction issues as much as possible. I would like to have Eric Vaughn widen to 11 or 11.5. Saw that maximum motorsport carries an ARP wheel stud (the 7723)

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/ARP-Rear-Wheel-Stud-2005-2014-Mustang-P1406.aspx

I don't think you should worry about them bending with those tires, I'd really only be concerned launching on a sticky track with drag radials.
-J

 

[biminiLX]

whats your opinion on racing with spacers on front wheels?

I am running a 3/8' spacer with extended lug nuts with factory rear 20" svtpp wheels up front with 275/35-20 tires.

I'm running them and have no concern on the street. Probably not a great idea for auto X or open track but I know some race teams use spacers for fitment, like Maximum Motorsports, and have raced with them.
-J

 

[HighTorque]

i'm running them and have no concern on the street. Probably not a great idea for auto x or open track but i know some race teams use spacers for fitment, like maximum motorsports, and have raced with them.
-j

yeah only do 1/4 and 1/2 mile no turning for me lol

 

[Catmonkey]

Found this information:

Spacers have gotten a bad rap over the years. Some of the stuff is well deserved, but for the most part, spacers are not a bad thing and if used properly are a very useful tool to make your wheels fit properly. A spacer over .313" (5/16) is not recommended. That makes it tough when you need to move the wheel out from .313" to 1.125". That's no man's land (between a spacer and an adapter). Oh well. There are 2 basic rules to consider when using spacers;

1. Always make sure you still have proper thread engagement of your lug nut and stud (TECH Stuff 4) after you have mounted the wheel on the vehicle with the spacer.

2. Choose a spacer that has a lot of mounting surface. There are spacers being offered that are a "fit all" (4, 5 & 6 hole) type. These look like a piece of swiss cheese and work about as well. Also make sure the material is adequate (billet aluminum is best) (pot metal is worst).

Adapters and Spacers can be very handy tools that can help you get just the look you're trying for with the wheels on your Rod. When used properly, they are safe and reliable.


I had my spacer made out of billet aluminum and only has holes drilled for my specific bolt pattern. My spacer is just under 5/16". If you need his contact info, send me a PM.

 

[03kbredfire]

I don't think you should worry about them bending with those tires, I'd really only be concerned launching on a sticky track with drag radials.


-J

I hope you are correct.

 

[03kbredfire]

Found this information:

Spacers have gotten a bad rap over the years. Some of the stuff is well deserved, but for the most part, spacers are not a bad thing and if used properly are a very useful tool to make your wheels fit properly. A spacer over .313" (5/16) is not recommended. That makes it tough when you need to move the wheel out from .313" to 1.125". That's no man's land (between a spacer and an adapter). Oh well. There are 2 basic rules to consider when using spacers;


1. Always make sure you still have proper thread engagement of your lug nut and stud (TECH Stuff 4) after you have mounted the wheel on the vehicle with the spacer.

2. Choose a spacer that has a lot of mounting surface. There are spacers being offered that are a "fit all" (4, 5 & 6 hole) type. These look like a piece of swiss cheese and work about as well. Also make sure the material is adequate (billet aluminum is best) (pot metal is worst).

Adapters and Spacers can be very handy tools that can help you get just the look you're trying for with the wheels on your Rod. When used properly, they are safe and reliable.


I had my spacer made out of billet aluminum and only has holes drilled for my specific bolt pattern. My spacer is just under 5/16". If you need his contact info, send me a PM.

Agree. If the proper part is used, I think it should be OK. I also should ask as when I checked multiple sites, the ARP's that are 2.5" have 0.625 knurl ends and are shown for use from 79-04. The studs for our cars show 0.615 knurl. Does the extra 0.010 present an undue stress to the flange when pressing in. ARP states to not pull in with nuts like some do, due to the stretching of threads that can happen. Great info and thanks again.

 

[Catmonkey]

I didn't have any problems installing them. You may have a problem going back to stock studs if you do install these. I really don't have plans to do that. Steeda's fitment applications shows all the way up to 2014 for those studs. You could use a 5/8" drill bit to open up the hole to .625".

 

[tomshep]

For only .01 I wouldn't drill them. Just press them in. You may do more harm by drilling for that small amount.

tom

 

[03kbredfire]

For only .01 I wouldn't drill them. Just press them in. You may do more harm by drilling for that small amount.

tom

I checked with ARP to confirm fitment. The recommendation is .005 larger than hole. The ones listed at .625 would be .015 larger than hole and should be drilled with a 39/64ths or risk damage to knurl when pressing in. Also was mentioned to not pull in as this can damage the integrity of the threads. Therefor the ARP 100-7723 seem to be the correct part. They are .615 for the knurl and 3.115" under head length. I had checked for stock replacement and found Doorman specs of 2.1875 under head and a knurl of .619. I suspect that the larger than spec'd knurl is due to a repress in the already used hub hole from stock studs. Steeda now suggests drilling with 39/64ths if using their 2.5" 014-7703 studs. Also appers that one side would need to be ground down for ABS ring clearance. As I am looking to add a 1/2" spacer, the extra 1" of length from the 7723's minus the starter tip of .3" should allow for maximum thread engagement with some freeplay under closed end lug. The flange end also looks narrow enough to preclude the need for grinding to fit.

 

[03kbredfire]

I checked with ARP to confirm fitment. The recommendation is .005 larger than hole. The ones listed at .625 would be .015 larger than hole and should be drilled with a 39/64ths or risk damage to knurl when pressing in. Also was mentioned to not pull in as this can damage the integrity of the threads. Therefor the ARP 100-7723 seem to be the correct part. They are .615 for the knurl and 3.115" under head length. I had checked for stock replacement and found Doorman specs of 2.1875 under head and a knurl of .619. I suspect that the larger than spec'd knurl is due to a repress in the already used hub hole from stock studs. Steeda now suggests drilling with 39/64ths if using their 2.5" 014-7703 studs. Also appers that one side would need to be ground down for ABS ring clearance. As I am looking to add a 1/2" spacer, the extra 1" of length from the 7723's minus the starter tip of .3" should allow for maximum thread engagement with some freeplay under closed end lug. The flange end also looks narrow enough to preclude the need for grinding to fit.

FWIW. I found this tool at Harbor Freight.

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-4-quarter-inch-forged-ball-joint-separator-99849.html


http://s627.photobucket.com/user/cleantune2/media/image_zps33235b20.jpg.html

It worked very well. It precludes the need for beating on the stock studs with a hammer to remove. Beating with a hammer is no Bueno for bearings. I might be able to use to install as well. Studs have been purchased ARP 100-7723 (the 3.115" with 0.615 knurl end.) These also are shaved on one side to fit past the ABS ring.

http://www.americanmuscle.com/arp-rear-wheel-studs-0513.html

If I cannot use this tool well to press the ARP's back in then this tool will help.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Lisle-22800-Wheel-Stud-Installer/40452452

Hope this info helps the next person looking to space their wheels out properly.