Engine Tick when warm

[atistang]

since the other thread got closed and i have this problem, i figured i'd start a new one so that maybe we can get some data on who had what tick and what was done to fix it.

so my car

9/20/10 build date

premium m6 with 3.31's

bought the car with 400 miles on original oil.

never had any ticking noise cold or hot, drove it on and off through the winter (sometimes under 20 degrees outside) still no cold engine ticks or rattles.

changed the oil @ about 3100 miles. didn't notice the noise on the way to work the next morning. then on my way home (after 20 miles on new oil) i noticed what sounded like a lifter tick when between ~1000-2000rpm. not as loud as a lifter tick, as i could only hear it with the window down and driving next to objects on the drivers side, but the same sound. if i lightly free rev it it will intermittently tick, but when driving it will stay constant.

it doesn't make this tick until fully warmed up, the engine is nice and quiet when cold and when idling.

I'm going to give it until 4000-5000 miles and see if it goes away or not.

I used motorcraft 5w-20 synthetic blend oil just like the car came with and a fl500s filter.

this is the same exact sound i have

2011 5.0 Mustang engine TICK after oil change - YouTube

 

[fiveohalex]

Don't know why my thread got closed, I thought we had a good discussion going and my problem is still not fixed, also have another appt on Tuesday, I installed the stock mufflers on and I can get it to tick on idle when warm with ac on consistently.

 

[dan02gt]

Mine is going back in on Monday for the exact same issue. They replaced the water pump on Thursday per TSB 12-3-1 and thought the issue was fixed. The water pump was making the tick I was hearing at idle, but the inconsistent 1000-2000 rpm tick is still present. I'm taking it back in on Monday so they can continue the diagnostics.

 

[Red Turtle]

Nobody knows the answer to this problem. Part of the reason is that the word "tick" IMO is not the correct description for the problem. It is more of a tap/metallic knock low in the RPM range under load when at operating temperature.

Fiveohalex, I do not believe that you have the same issue as the OP. His seems consistant with others who have changed the oil early in the engines life.

The previous thread was closed because it was not going anywhere and became a tennis match between a few users. There have been many threads started relating to this issue and all end up the same.

 

[dan02gt]

Nobody knows the answer to this problem. Part of the reason is that the word "tick" IMO is not the correct description for the problem. It is more of a tap/metallic knock low in the RPM range under load when at operating temperature.

Fiveohalex, I do not believe that you have the same issue as the OP. His seems consistant with others who have changed the oil early in the engines life.

The previous thread was closed because it was not going anywhere and became a tennis match between a few users. There have been many threads started relating to this issue and all end up the same.

Red Turtle, The odd thing is that the OP described my "tick" exactly, and I didn't do my first oil change till 5k miles. Also, my tick didn't start till about 100 miles after my second oil change at 12k miles. I used Mobile 1 in both cases.

Another really odd thing is that after it started my car would sometimes tick pretty loud at idle, but would always tick (less loudly) between 1000-2000 RPMs. The Ford tech replaced the water pump and that seems to have cured the louder idle tick, but the other one is still there. I thought it was one thing ticking but I guess not.

Anyway I hope we can keep this thread open so it can be discussed, and I'll report back after Ford looks at my car on Monday.

 

[fiveohalex]

Nobody knows the answer to this problem. Part of the reason is that the word "tick" IMO is not the correct description for the problem. It is more of a tap/metallic knock low in the RPM range under load when at operating temperature.

Fiveohalex, I do not believe that you have the same issue as the OP. His seems consistant with others who have changed the oil early in the engines life.

The previous thread was closed because it was not going anywhere and became a tennis match between a few users. There have been many threads started relating to this issue and all end up the same.

Understood, but my tick is identical to the tee as others describe, and since I am one if the few owners that have 30+k miles I thought it would be nice to chronicle my experience with this issue and how the dealer would treat the issue being that its now on the powertrain warranty.

 

[Red Turtle]

The "tick" described is not audilbe at idle, nor relates to the A/C on or off. It is audible under load or partial throttle when the car is at operating temp.

This is why I say that "tick" is not the best description.

 

[fiveohalex]

When the ac is on at idle the engine is under a slighter load than when ac is off VIA the compressor kicking on and off, with ac off I can make the noise happen with partial throttle and a very slight load, same tick same sound, ac on only makes it more noticeable at idle, but noise can be made anytime under proper conditions.

 

[atistang]

i haven't noticed any difference with the ac on or off, but i also dont drive with the ac on and the windows down so that might be why lol

this sound is very odd, i thought everyone else was crazy about it happening after their oil change, then i found out they are not

i intended to run the original oil longer, but i know how often cars get started up cold, moved, then shut back off. i couldn't take the thought of abnormal amount of fuel in my oil any longer. now i kinda wish i would have waited

 

[dan02gt]

The "tick" described is not audilbe at idle, nor relates to the A/C on or off. It is audible under load or partial throttle when the car is at operating temp.

This is why I say that "tick" is not the best description.

I agree. Your description of a tap/metallic knock is better.

 

[Red Turtle]

Again, I don't think it is the same as most can't duplicate the noise at idle. Not saying that you don't have something, but this might relate to more of the TSB work out there.

 

[atistang]

does anyone know of a complete up to date list of tsb's we can see, i know of the thread at s197 forums but it hasn't been updated in a while

 

[Swetrid]

Printable View (2473 KB)
TSB
12-3-1 5.0L - INTERMITTENT METALLIC RATTLE OR SCRATCHING TYPE NOISE - WARM ENGINE AT IDLE

Publication Date: March 2, 2012

FORD: 2011-2012 Mustang, F-150


This article supersedes TSB 11-12-12 to update the Service Procedure and warranty causal part number.

ISSUE:
Some 2011-2012 F-150 and Mustang vehicles (excluding Boss) equipped with a 5.0L engine may exhibit an intermittent metallic rattle or scratching type noise in the area at the front of the left hand or driver side cylinder head at idle with the engine at operating temperature.

ACTION:
Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

Determine engine build date. Refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 303-01.
If engine build date is on or before 11/10/2011, proceed to Step 2.
If engine build date is on or after 11/11/2011, do not continue with this procedure. Refer to the WSM, Section 303-00 for normal diagnostics.
Warm the engine to operating temperature.
Using a mechanic's stethoscope or EngineEAR, listen for a metallic type rattle or scratching type noise at the front of LH cylinder head.
Is the noise heard in areas shown? (Figures 1 and 2)


Figure 1 - Article 12-3-1




Figure 2 - Article 12-3-1


Yes - Proceed to Step 5.
No - This article does not apply.
Remove accessory drive belt, refer to WSM, Section 303-05. Is noise still present?
Yes - Proceed to Step 6.
No - Replace the coolant pump. Refer to WSM, Section 303-03A.
Is the noise heard in the areas shown? (Figures 1 and 2)
Yes - Replace the LH primary tensioner and timing chain tensioner arm using the kit part number provided in this article. Refer to WSM, Section 303-01B.
No - This article does not apply. Refer to WSM, Section 303-00 for normal diagnostics.
NOTE: FAILURE TO REPLACE BOTH THE PRIMARY TENSIONER AND TIMING CHAIN TENSIONER ARM MAY RESULT IN OVERLOADING OF THE TIMING CHAIN AND UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS COULD LEAD TO TIMING CHAIN FAILURE.




PART NUMBER PART NAME
BR3Z-6L266-AA Chain Tensioner Kit
ZC-30 Motorcraft® Silicone Gasket Remover
ZC-31-A Motorcraft® Metal Surface Prep
TA-30 Motorcraft® Silicone Gasket And Sealant
BR3Z-8255-A Thermostat Seal
F1VY-8507-A Water Pump Gasket
BR3Z-6A340-A Crankshaft Bolt
BR3Z-6020-B Front Cover Gasket - Left
BR3Z-6020-C Front Cover Gasket - Center
BR3Z-6020-D Front Cover Gasket - Right
BR3Z-6584-A Valve Cover Gasket - Left
BR3Z-6584-D Valve Cover Gasket - Right
BR3Z-8620-A A/C Stretchy Belt
BR3Z-8501-H Water Pump


WARRANTY STATUS:
Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage
IMPORTANT: Warranty/ESP coverage limits/policies/prior approvals are not altered by a TSB. Warranty/ESP coverage limits are determined by the identified causal part and verified using the OASIS part coverage tool.

OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME
120301A 2011-2012 F-150 5.0L: Replace The Coolant Pump Includes Time To Diagnose (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 1.5 Hrs.
120301A 2011-2012 Mustang 5.0L: Replace The Coolant Pump Includes Time To Diagnose (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 1.7 Hrs.
120301B 2011-2012 F-150 5.0L: Replace The LH Timing Chain Tensioner And Tensioner Arm Includes Time To Diagnose (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 5.3 Hrs.
120301B 2011-2012 Mustang 5.0L: Replace The LH Timing Chain Tensioner And Tensioner Arm Includes Time To Diagnose (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 5.4 Hrs.

DEALER CODING
BASIC PART NO. CONDITION CODE
8501 42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: The information in Technical Service Bulletins is intended for use by trained, professional technicians with the knowledge, tools, and equipment to do the job properly and safely. It informs these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or provides information that could assist in proper vehicle service. The procedures should not be performed by "do-it-yourselfers". Do not assume that a condition described affects your car or truck. Contact a Ford or Lincoln dealership to determine whether the Bulletin applies to your vehicle. Warranty Policy and Extended Service Plan documentation determine Warranty and/or Extended Service Plan coverage unless stated otherwise in the TSB article. The information in this Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) was current at the time of printing. Ford Motor Company reserves the right to supercede this information with updates. The most recent information is available through Ford Motor Company's on-line technical resources.

Copyright © 2012 Ford Motor Company

 

[Swetrid]

Printable View (839 KB)
TSB
12-1-10 5.0L WITH MANUAL TRANSMISSION AND A/C COMPRESSOR STRETCHY BELT CONFIGURATION - LIGHT LOWER-END ENGINE KNOCK

Publication Date: January 18, 2012

FORD: 2011-2012 Mustang


ISSUE:
Some 2011-2012 Mustang vehicles equipped with a 5.0L engine, manual transmission and air conditioning (A/C) compressor stretchy belt configuration may exhibit a light lower end engine knock most noticeable when engine temperature is warm and the vehicle is at idle.

ACTION:
Refer to the Service Procedure to correct the condition.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

Remove the front end accessory drive (FEAD) and A/C compressor stretchy belt. Refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 303-05. Start engine and re-evaluate concern. Is light, lower-end engine knock still present?
Yes - Do not continue with this article. Perform normal diagnostics. Refer to WSM, Section 303-00.
No - Obtain Service Kit and proceed to Step 2.
Remove the FEAD belt tensioner and bolt from the engine front cover. Refer to WSM, Section 303-05 - Exploded view.
Determine the engine built date. Refer to WSM, Section 303-01.
If the engine build date is on or before 4/15/2011, replace the engine front cover. Refer to WSM, Section 303-01.
If the engine build date is after 4/15/2011, do not replace the engine front cover. Use an 8 X 1.25 mm tap to clean the mounting locations noted on the engine front cover. Use compressed air to clean any remaining debris. (Figure 1)


Figure 1 - Article 12-1-10


Install A/C compressor drive belt idler pulley and A/C compressor drive belt idler pulley bolt supplied in the service kit. Tighten to 25 N-m (18 lb-ft).
Install A/C drive compressor belt tensioner supplied in the service kit. Tighten to 25 N-m (18 lb-ft).
Install new A/C compressor belt supplied in the service kit. Refer to WSM, Section 303-05, 5.0L (4V) late build vehicles, for proper belt routing. (Figure 2)


Figure 2 - Article 12-1-10


Install the FEAD belt tensioner and bolt. Tighten to 25 N-m (18 lb-ft). Refer to WSM, Section 303-05, FEAD - Exploded view, 5.0L (4V) late build vehicles.
Install FEAD belt. Refer to WSM, Section 303-05, FEAD - Exploded view 5.0L (4V) late build vehicles.
Install Integrated Diagnostic System (IDS) and identify the vehicle. Answer the IDS screen prompts according to the current vehicle A/C belt configuration.
Reprogram the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) using IDS release 76.03 or later. This new calibration is not included in the VCM 2011.11 DVD. Calibration files may also be obtained at Buy Motorcraft Parts Online | Official Motorcraft Auto Parts Site | FordParts.com.
Perform Misfire Monitor Neutral Profile Correction. Select IDS Toolbox Icon, Powertrain, Service Functions, then Misfire Monitor Neutral Profile Correction.



PART NUMBER PART NAME
CR3Z-8620-AA Kit-Drive Belt - Boss
BR3Z-8620-DA Kit-Drive Belt - GT
BR3Z-6019-G Front Cover
XW4Z-6700-A Crankshaft Seal - Front


WARRANTY STATUS:
Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage
IMPORTANT: Warranty/ESP coverage limits/policies/prior approvals are not altered by a TSB. Warranty/ESP coverage limits are determined by the identified causal part and verified using the OASIS part coverage tool.

OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME
120110A 2011-2012 Mustang 5.0L Manual Transmission: Diagnose, Install New A/C Compressor Drive Belt Idler Pulley, Tensioner, And Belt Includes Time To Reprogram The PCM And Perform Misfire Monitor Neutral Profile Correction (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 1.0 Hr.
120110B 2011-2012 Mustang 5.0L Manual Transmission: Diagnose, Install New Engine Front Cover, A/C Compressor Drive Belt Idler Pulley, Tensioner, And Belt Includes Time To Reprogram The PCM And Perform Misfire Monitor Neutral Profile Correction (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 5.4 Hrs.

DEALER CODING
BASIC PART NO. CONDITION CODE
6006 42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: The information in Technical Service Bulletins is intended for use by trained, professional technicians with the knowledge, tools, and equipment to do the job properly and safely. It informs these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or provides information that could assist in proper vehicle service. The procedures should not be performed by "do-it-yourselfers". Do not assume that a condition described affects your car or truck. Contact a Ford or Lincoln dealership to determine whether the Bulletin applies to your vehicle. Warranty Policy and Extended Service Plan documentation determine Warranty and/or Extended Service Plan coverage unless stated otherwise in the TSB article. The information in this Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) was current at the time of printing. Ford Motor Company reserves the right to supercede this information with updates. The most recent information is available through Ford Motor Company's on-line technical resources.

Copyright © 2012 Ford Motor Company

 

[fiveohalex]

Tsd 12-3-1 was done on the car, same noise, same as all of the YouTube cars with the ignitor tick

 

[cidsamuth]

The "tick" described is not audilbe at idle, nor relates to the A/C on or off. It is audible under load or partial throttle when the car is at operating temp.

This is why I say that "tick" is not the best description.

Well, the "ignitor" tick is certainly worse with the A/C on. Further, it can appear under idle, particularly with the A/C on. It's this noise and note the car is merely idling:

2011 Mustang GT 5.0 engine tick - YouTube

By the way, the noise was coined as "ignitor" because it sounds like someone is hitting the ignitor button on their gas grill or hot water heater.

 

[cidsamuth]

Good times, good times.

 

[Red Turtle]

Well, the "ignitor" tick is certainly worse with the A/C on. Further, it can appear under idle, particularly with the A/C on. It's this noise and note the car is merely idling:

2011 Mustang GT 5.0 engine tick - YouTube

By the way, the noise was coined as "ignitor" because it sounds like someone is hitting the ignitor button on their gas grill or hot water heater.

This sounds like more of something that one of the new TSB's would take care of. Others have experienced a tick/tap/metallic knock at operating temp under load with no influence with or without A/C.

No reason to continuously go round and round, so each owner should get to their dealer if they have an issue.

 

[shadowstang03gt]

This sounds like more of something that one of the new TSB's would take care of. Others have experienced a tick/tap/metallic knock at operating temp under load with no influence with or without A/C.

No reason to continuously go round and round, so each owner should get to their dealer if they have an issue.

thank you. 10,000 posts with no new info. Just take it to the dealer. mine made some odd noise. i ripped it down the highway at 100mph before taking it into work this morning. i had a couple guys listen, we couldnt hear it. Gonna drive it 2 hours to the beach tomorrow and see what happens. either way, im not gonna lose sleep. i blame these J/o's for posting this shit, otherwise i would have never even heard it. :rockon:

 

[Red Turtle]

thank you. 10,000 posts with no new info. Just take it to the dealer. mine made some odd noise. i ripped it down the highway at 100mph before taking it into work this morning. i had a couple guys listen, we couldnt hear it. Gonna drive it 2 hours to the beach tomorrow and see what happens. either way, im not gonna lose sleep. i blame these J/o's for posting this shit, otherwise i would have never even heard it. :rockon:

Again, the term "tick" is not relative to what some have had. Yes, the vid Cidsamuth posted obviously has something and may very well have created the TSB repair posted above his. I will say it again, the vid seems to be something different than others have experienced. This vid seems to fit the description of the 12-1-10 TSB.

There is another issue that is audible and not something that you have to listen or look for. It is blatently obvious under load and is an issue for some. In the end, FMC would not have replaced engines under warranty if it was just internet rumors.