E85 - Need clarification

[kw_rc]

Guys - I've come across two threads one here ( I think it was Birdoc's from a year ago ) and one on another site which state to use E85 all you need are larger injectors (like ID100's) and a Dual Boost-a-pump or larger pumps. Then I see these high-dollar return-style fuel systems that are designed for E85.

Can someone "in the know" please clarify what is required to properly run E85?

I like reading too. If you've got links please share 'em.

Thanks!

 

[Black Cobra '99]

I am in the stages of a rebuild on my 07 GT500 that will be getting a Ford Racing fully forged short block and I will be re-using the 2.3l tvs set up with a 2.6 Metco pulley. The stock sized Ford Racing balancer is currently on the old motor but I was thinking of going to a 10 or 15% overdrive pulley to make a little more power this time around. I sold my stock injectors and will be going to something larger but not sure what exactly. I also scored a FORE fuel rail set for a decent price and will be installing those. My question is what recommendations do people have for what fuel system I should be using for the car if I was looking to make 700-750 RWHP with the car. Either with 91 pump gas or E85? I'm wondering what injectors and what pump set up?

e85 ID1000's and our fuel pump booster.

91 with Torco ID725s and no booster needed.

700 is the limit for 56's/booster. We've tested it with all sorts of injector/booster/fuel/boost/power combos.

I run a set of ID1000s and a booster on my car and at 23psi and 750 rwhp (no, not pump gas) the injector duty cycle is around 70% and the pump DC is a little over 80%.

No, you won't/can't more than once, make 700 on 91 octane pump gas.

Found in this thread
Fuel System for 07 Gt500 with 2.3l TVS looking to make 700-750 RWHP ???

Which is still on page 1

 

[Bad500Chris]

In order to go from pump to E85, (generally speaking) you just need to be able to push 30-45% more fuel volume.
So, based off your current mods on the car, if your injector duty cycle is around 75%, you should go with bigger injectors.
Talk to the person who tunes your car. Look at your current data logs and determine what fuel mods need to be done.

The systems that say they are E85 compatible just mean they are all stainless steel parts. Because E85 has the tendency to attract water, some parts can go bad if they have water sitting on them for too long. Ultimately it's your call on what you need. The stock GT500 fuel system is E85 "compatible" as in nothing will break if ethanol runs though the system. Remember most pump gas is 10% ethanol. The only potential you have for something going bad is if the car sits for a very long period of time and something rusts because of water in the tank. If I know the car is going to sit for a while, I swap back to pump gas.

Currently, I'm running ID1000s and a BAP on E85. I have plans to move to a bigger return style setup as I'm currently running out of fuel past 6200rpm.
In order to properly run E85, you just need to ask yourself how much volume can my current system handle.

 

[RSAGT500]

In order to go from pump to E85, (generally speaking) you just need to be able to push 30-45% more fuel volume.
So, based off your current mods on the car, if your injector duty cycle is around 75%, you should go with bigger injectors.
Talk to the person who tunes your car. Look at your current data logs and determine what fuel mods need to be done.

The systems that say they are E85 compatible just mean they are all stainless steel parts. Because E85 has the tendency to attract water, some parts can go bad if they have water sitting on them for too long. Ultimately it's your call on what you need. The stock GT500 fuel system is E85 "compatible" as in nothing will break if ethanol runs though the system. Remember most pump gas is 10% ethanol. The only potential you have for something going bad is if the car sits for a very long period of time and something rusts because of water in the tank. If I know the car is going to sit for a while, I swap back to pump gas.

Currently, I'm running ID1000s and a BAP on E85. I have plans to move to a bigger return style setup as I'm currently running out of fuel past 6200rpm.
In order to properly run E85, you just need to ask yourself how much volume can my current system handle.

So you're running E85 on a returnless system using stock fuel pumps , ID1000, and a single bap? Did you have it tuned remotely or was the tuner present? I'm curious on this as I'd like to bump the power up just a little but would like the safety of E85 without spending over $2k+.

 

[stkjock]

what is you power goal?

that's a big factor

 

[VNMOUS1]

In order to go from pump to E85, (generally speaking) you just need to be able to push 30-45% more fuel volume.
So, based off your current mods on the car, if your injector duty cycle is around 75%, you should go with bigger injectors.
Talk to the person who tunes your car. Look at your current data logs and determine what fuel mods need to be done.

The systems that say they are E85 compatible just mean they are all stainless steel parts. Because E85 has the tendency to attract water, some parts can go bad if they have water sitting on them for too long. Ultimately it's your call on what you need. The stock GT500 fuel system is E85 "compatible" as in nothing will break if ethanol runs though the system. Remember most pump gas is 10% ethanol. The only potential you have for something going bad is if the car sits for a very long period of time and something rusts because of water in the tank. If I know the car is going to sit for a while, I swap back to pump gas.

Currently, I'm running ID1000s and a BAP on E85. I have plans to move to a bigger return style setup as I'm currently running out of fuel past 6200rpm.
In order to properly run E85, you just need to ask yourself how much volume can my current system handle.

Yeah, my FPDC spikes once in a while when there's a transition going on, but generally I'm about 70/80 injector to pump as stated above. We're running the same setup on a GEN II equipped '14 GT500 and it makes 840 to the tire on e85 without maxing the pump. Go figure. (There are some mechanical differences, but certainly some voltage/tuning differences between the 14 and my antique)

 

[Joewee500]

Bj, how long have you been running e85 and the id1000s? Lots run the injector but say the 1300s should be used. Just trying to see if I can use it with longevity. Thanks in advance.

 

[kw_rc]

Black Cobra: Thanks for the link.

Bad500: I appreciate the explanation. This makes me feel a lot better about switching to E85.

BJ: Thanks for chiming in. Do you run E85 all the time?

I have a '12 GT500 with ID1000's and Dual BAP. I think I'm set up for the switch. I'll need to get with Lund to see what my injector DC and fuel pump are. I hope I have headroom because E85 is looking more do-able.


RE: Switching between E85 and 93 - is this something that can be done at any time? Do you need to run the tank to [almost] empty before filling up with the other fuel type? Can I just mix them? What are the best practices here?

Thanks for all the input!!!

 

[VNMOUS1]

Bj, how long have you been running e85 and the id1000s? Lots run the injector but say the 1300s should be used. Just trying to see if I can use it with longevity. Thanks in advance.

I don't personally...it isn't readily available here.

bj

 

[VNMOUS1]

Black Cobra: Thanks for the link.

Bad500: I appreciate the explanation. This makes me feel a lot better about switching to E85.

BJ: Thanks for chiming in. Do you run E85 all the time?

I have a '12 GT500 with ID1000's and Dual BAP. I think I'm set up for the switch. I'll need to get with Lund to see what my injector DC and fuel pump are. I hope I have headroom because E85 is looking more do-able.


RE: Switching between E85 and 93 - is this something that can be done at any time? Do you need to run the tank to [almost] empty before filling up with the other fuel type? Can I just mix them? What are the best practices here?

Thanks for all the input!!!

EMPTY (or really close).

Don't mix.

Always test every tank.

bj

 

[1320 Junkie]

Im a E85 convert...I run the JPC triple 465's ,ID 1300's full return style. One pump is on a toggle switch(pic above) incase I want to run 93 and less power. ID1000's are good to 800hp or so on E85. I also recommend testing each batch you buy...I buy 70 gallons at a time so I test only once for that 70 gallons.

 

[kw_rc]

bj or BlwnSVT: when testing E85 what is considered a "good" or "bad" batch?

 

[CodyK7]

That's what's tough is testing every tank. That seems like a huge pain. Is running e85 practical for a daily driven car? All things the same on a car do you pick up power switching to e85? So say you have 650rwhp would you be able to put down 685rwhp or whatever the increase is.

It seems kind of shaky the way you have to always test it.

 

[VNMOUS1]

Cool deal on the switch Jay.

bj

 

[VNMOUS1]

bj or BlwnSVT: when testing E85 what is considered a "good" or "bad" batch?

It's not that it's good nor bad. You're looking for the "mix". If you're tuned for 85% and it's only 70%, that could be a real problem. And the actual "mix" consistency sucks.

That's what's tough is testing every tank. That seems like a huge pain. Is running e85 practical for a daily driven car? All things the same on a car do you pick up power switching to e85? So say you have 650rwhp would you be able to put down 685rwhp or whatever the increase is.

It seems kind of shaky the way you have to always test it.

You don't miraculously increase HP. The properties of the fuel allow you to tune more aggressively with it.

 

[1320 Junkie]

That's what's tough is testing every tank. That seems like a huge pain. Is running e85 practical for a daily driven car? All things the same on a car do you pick up power switching to e85? So say you have 650rwhp would you be able to put down 685rwhp or whatever the increase is.

It seems kind of shaky the way you have to always test it.

Testing is for piece of mind...especially when the $ you have invested into the car is on the line. It takes literally 2 min to test....really no excuse to not test.

My car is not DD'd...but when I do drive it I run E85 because in my opinion if you have access to it and can afford the conversion....you would be crazy to not run it. Its basically race fuel out of a gas pump at a 1/4 of the cost.

 

[1320 Junkie]

Cool deal on the switch Jay.

bj

Been running this stuff since June....im a believer . 93 is in the tank for the winter but as soon as the spring hits shes back on the Corn.

 

[69b302]

I have been running E85 for several years. The biggest problem is limited cruise range and availability. Most people running E85 use a return fuel system. Returnless fuel systems have trouble with handling fast fuel transitions, like shifting a manual trans at the track, when fuel demand is very high(like running E85). You can tune the returnless a bit, but in the end return systems are far more reliable for this type of application. Testing is not that big a deal, since most tune for E85, so if you get a winter blend of e70 you just run a little rich. Running Torco and 100 octane tune is a better option for most people IMO. If your car is mostly track focused, you plan to throw 20+ PSI of boost, and upgrade your fuel system, then E85 is for you.

 

[Phantomhalo]

I thought I read something a while back about filters or pumps clogging with E-85? IIRC the Walbro 465's were good but the stock pumps wouldn't last. Am I thinking of something different? I think that was one of the reasons not going to E-85 because in order to do it right it was about as much as my TVS...

 

[biminiLX]

You don't miraculously increase HP. The properties of the fuel allow you to tune more aggressively with it.

Old test but cool to see, shows you can add power with just E85. This is my brother's '04 Cobra powered '86 GT.
Its a C4 auto car, but the 3 graphs represent 1) the first year the car was converted to mod-motor with a loose converter 2) tight converter on mix 93/110 gas and 3) after draining the fuel cell and putting in E85 and adding 30%, no timing or other changes.

You can see the E85 alone adds decent power (usually 30-40hp range in most applications), even before tuning and the car also runs at least 10* cooler.
I doubt 75-100 ever even with tuning, probably expect 50rwhp for a converted and tuned E85 GT500 in my estimate. But more benefits than just power.
-J