Downshifting

[EZRIDN]

I have completed a few HPDE events with my Mustang GT and still have some trouble downshifting smoothly before a turn due to the fact that you cannot heal and toe with the pedals. I have many high performance driving books which all talk about heal and toe downshifting, which is not helping me with this car.

I do not want to add any type of plate of whatever to my stock pedals.

What do you guys do? Would buying a set of Cobra pedals help (I have a Mustang GT)? If that does not work, how do you downshift smoothly before a turn?

I love the sound of a car when someone is using the heal and toe technique before a turn!

Feedback welcome!

 

[99COBRA2881]

Hope this helps. Between this mod and bending the gas pedal by hand my pedal is perfect for Heel toe downshifting.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226734&highlight=gas+pedal+mod

 

[EZRIDN]

Awesome. I will check into that.

 

[CobraRed01]

I'm not a road racer yet...but I find if I use the arch of my right foot on the brake pedal I can effectively "toe" the throttle while applying firm braking. Probably not the conventional approach, but it works real well for me on aggressive backroads driving. I've made no adjustments to my pedals and I assume my '01 Cobra is similar to your '03 GT, no? If this is not the way to go on track...I'm sure someone will chime in...but it's one way I've been able to make it work....with a similar car.

 

[EZRIDN]

Interesting. I will have to see how that would work also. I'm curious as to others thoughts on this also.

 

[99COBRA2881]

My pedals are positioned so that I can set the ball of my right foot on the brake and still press firmly, to heel/toe I then roll my ankle and blip the throttle with the outside of my right foot.
Finding the correct pedal height takes some trial and error fine tuning, at first I bent the pedal too far up and left. I found that under hard braking my foot would contact the gas pedal. I bent it back down and right to get it where I feel is best for me.
The good thing is the height can be tested while the car is sitting at idle.

 

[TXPD]

I also use the top of my right foot on both brake pedal and throttle. I am cautious with the 351 in my '95 R and rarely use the engine for braking. So, I don't downshift for that purpose.

 

[EZRIDN]

TXPD, that is kind of what I am talking about. I can feel the car becoming somewhat unsettled when I downshift before the turn.

 

[ac427cobra]

I am cautious with the 351 in my '95 R and rarely use the engine for braking. So, I don't downshift for that purpose.

The idea of heel toe technique is not to use the engine braking to slow you down. It's to rev match the front side of the trans (engine) to the back side (differential) for smooth shifting which will in turn save your synchros and gears and be easier on your trans.

TXPD, that is kind of what I am talking about. I can feel the car becoming somewhat unsettled when I downshift before the turn.

Your car is becoming unsettled because you need to be smoother with this technique. Practice, practice, practice.

:thumbsup: :coolman: :beer:

 

[Cobra-R]

I will also add, if you are unsettleing the car during a non heel/toe downshift, you are probly making the downshift to early. I don't bother heel/toe, and some the the fastest racers I know don't do it either. I put it low on the priority list as far as things to learn when tracking.

Brian

 

[TroyV]

+1

There are a million things to think about when you're out there. I can do it, but I haven't really noticed enough of a benefit for it to make a difference....at least at my skill level. It might make more of a difference in a year or so....after I pick up some more speed.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

I don't heel toe either...
I am beyond busy at that moment in time. I brake relatively late and hard. I just stuff it into the gear I want to be in... and I let the clutch out smoothly as I apply the throttle so as to not upset the car.
This allows for smoother weight transfer as I power up for the apex and exit.

It is very important that that you try to manage what your car's weight is doing. Make it work for your tire's grip not against it.

 

[EZRIDN]

This is awesome advice! I really appreciate it.

Ok, the only thing I know that is suppose to slow ther car down is the brakes. When I am downshifting I am doing it so that I can have the right gear coming out of the turn and not using it to slow the car down.

Here is what I am gathering from you guys are saying.

-My car is unsettled because I am am downshifting too soon, and not smoothly enough. Correct? So to remedy this, I just need to let the clutch out in a more smooth manner and wait a bit to downshift?

Also, would this mean that I would skip a gear sometimes to pick the right gear for exiting a corner? For example, go from 4th straight to 2nd?

Here is a scenario.....Coming down the front straight at VIR I can be at about 110-115 MPH and need to get to about 50 or so for turn 1. So do I wait until I am near 50 MPH to go from 3rd to 4th gear?

Thanks everyone for you time in answering this!

 

[EZRIDN]

I don't heel toe either...
I just stuff it into the gear I want to be in... and I let the clutch out smoothly as I apply the throttle so as to not upset the car.
This allows for smoother weight transfer as I power up for the apex and exit.

QUOTE]

So do you have the clutch in throughout the turn?

 

[99COBRA2881]

If it's unsettling the car then that means that you didnt rev match the rpms close enough. Blip the throttle harder to get the rpms up to match the driveline. Skipshifting saves an extra blip for the inbetween gears and gets you into the right gear faster.

*Edit* What I look for in the heal/toe downshift is if I let the clutch out and I feel the car lunge ahead I overrevved, if I feel it decelerate I underrevved on the downshift.

 

[Cobra-R]

Here is what I am gathering from you guys are saying.

-My car is unsettled because I am am downshifting too soon, and not smoothly enough. Correct? So to remedy this, I just need to let the clutch out in a more smooth manner and wait a bit to downshift?

Exactly. Ride with someone to get an idea. Just as it takes practice to heel/toe, it takes practice to do a straight downshift. Stay relaxed and dont force it. :rockon:

Also, would this mean that I would skip a gear sometimes to pick the right gear for exiting a corner? For example, go from 4th straight to 2nd?

Most deffinately!! Do NOT downshift each gear whether it be rev matching or not.

Brian

BTW: I am not saying heel toeing is wrong, I just dont think it is that necessary with a synchronized transmission. If you have ambitions of driving cars without synchronized transmissions in the future, deffinately work on learning it now.

 

[dtheo]

I just put my left side of my right foot on the brake while braking hard and when its time to shift I just roll my ankle a bit and by the time I am near the bottem of the brake peddle, my right side of my foot (while I am rolling it) blips the throttle just enough to get the job done. Its amazing how much thought I still put into it though, do it enough and it will be a non-thought production.

Good thread guys.

 

[PETSNKE]

My pedals are positioned so that I can set the ball of my right foot on the brake and still press firmly, to heel/toe I then roll my ankle and blip the throttle with the outside of my right foot.

The "ball of foot-edge of foot" technique how to video can be seen on:
www.hookedondriving.com

click on "Track TV", then choose Heal-Toe

 

[EZRIDN]

The "ball of foot-edge of foot" technique how to video can be seen on:
www.hookedondriving.com

click on "Track TV", then choose Heal-Toe

Great video! They practice the heal--toe on a new mustang. I will have to try that on the street tomorrow.

Thanks!

Any comments on the video?

-Mark