DO you think your Terminator can take the GT500?

[Wild Bill]

OK. so it appears that the general tone of the response that I have read here is that we expect the GT500 to win, but not by much. Now of course with the impact of Mods and Driverall bets are off. I started this thread because I was wondering what effect is of the negative press that the GT500 has received. That is whether we (Terminator owners) are beginning to feel that we can take them? Espcecially with Car Mags comparison of the GT500 to the C6 Z51 Vette. And the fact that I have seen many posts where Terminators walked away from them (Vettes).

The Terminator will continue to be a force no doubt but don't forget that the Challenger and Camaros are coming back, so there will be more competition on the street.

I am waiting for this fall when the whether is cooler, GT500 have been broken, maybe a few mods added to them, and we will begin to see GT500 on the track and on the street. If the 5.4 motor is anywhere as responsive to mods as the 4.6 motor, then we better look out. Somehow I have a feeling that the GT500 is going to be nothing to mess with and that it will repond well to mods. Time will tell though.

For those guys that say the car is heavy, yes it is, but it does have a better power to weight ratio than the Terminator, and that is really what counts. You judge a car buy its weight and how much power it puts out. Not just the weight by itself.

Dude I dont know a single person with a stock terminator.As for me I got 496rwp before the 100shot so yeah I'll be hunting them.Remember the gearing is better on the cobra and smaller wheels and less weight.Also its going to be hard to get the shelby to a respectable weight I mean its almost 4,000lbs with no spare tire!It will take a lot of work to get it to stock terminator weight.I would say the cars will be about equall.It will come down to driver stock vs stock and the same with equall mods.Of course I could be and hope I am wrong cause I want to get one of those to sit along side my 04.

 

[Wild Bill]

No, it's the drive-by-wire. Look at the gains in ET and trap speed (not to mention throttle response) that the 3V Mustangs and 3V F-150s get with a custom tune. We aren't talking about minor differences here, and the ET and trap speeds gains are coming primarily from tweaking the ETC calibrations.



And it pulls 117 mph, bieng held back primarily due to ETC. You're kind of shooting yourself in the foot here, proving my point for me and all. I can all but garuantee you these cars will be capable of ~120 mph with nothing but a tune.



Um, as I've already stated a 70 rwhp advantage can't be offset by 200 - 250 lbs. No way, no how and unless God comes down from Heaven and rewrites the laws of physics it won't ever be the case.

Since it ISN'T the horsepower-to-weight ratio that is preventing the GT500 from destroying a Terminator stock for stock we have to look at other variables. Fortunately, Ford ETC calibrations are known for their wonderful characteristics of bogging, laziness, and taking away far too much control from the driver. It's simple physics, a 3,900 lb. car with 440 rwhp is going to be faster than a 3,700 lb. car with 370 rwhp UNLESS there is another variable thrown into the equation.

What can those other variables be? Suspension? Live axle is in the GT500s favor. Peaky power band? A 5.4L with a hybrid roots blower and GT(40) heads are in the GT500s favor. Gearing? A draw. Drive-By-Wire? Standard throttle cable in the Terminators favor.



So are you saying the reason the 440 rwhp Shelby isn't showing better ETs than stock 370 rwhp Terminators is due solely to the weight? Are you saying that, or are you trying to take the debate off in another direction? I really can't tell; and if you are trying to argue the lack of a difference in ETs between these two car is due to the weight you seriously need to sit down and learn the car basics.

I'll try to spell if out for you. The 2003-2004 Cobra (as it leaves the showroom) carries roughly 8.7 lbs for every horsepower (based on a 3,665lb curb weight and 420 flywheel horsepower) while the GT500 carries roughly 7.8 lbs. for every horsepower (based on a 3,920lb curb weight and 500 flywheel horsepower). The horsepower to weight ratio is SOLIDLY in the GT500s favor bro, the reason the GT500 isn't annihilating the Terminators stock for stock is due to ONE factor and ONE factor alone, DRIVE-BY-WIRE.

Dont forget that the wheels are larger on the shelby (inertia +unsprung weight) the gears are also in favor of the cobra.Those 2 things alone could be costing the shelby a 1/2 sec.

 

[Ben99GT]

I wasn't trying to get under anyone's skin much less trying to be a tool. I came here because I like the Cobras and the 2nd gen Lightnings. Why would I want to make enemies here? ;-)

I'll admit, the comments did get under my skin. You seem all right though, so I probably should have posted the response in a more civil manner. I apologize. There seems to be alot of ignorance out there about the modulars, and I get tired of people bashing them for no reason other than out of ignorance. They do require a little different thinking to make run than your typical small block, but it's just that, different.

I was just expressing my opinions on the matter and that of many accomplished engine builders, Ford, Dodge, or Chevy biased.

Yes, but you must admit, every engine builder has opinions and they often even conflict with one another. Opinions are like assholes... If someone is out there proving "good ol' boy" theories wrong in the real world, what can they say?

Sure, the 5.4 has to overcome obstacles that aren't "as big of" issues in the SBF, GM LS-series or the new Hemis, but it's not like you have don't have work to all of those engines for high rpm too.

I'm also not denying what it can do as technology of today can go a long way toward extracting much out of a given design. The Lightnings are proof of that as well as that SN95 Mustang video you posted, but then again so is the LS1/LS2 engine family and Chrysler's new hemi lineup.

Jason

Just a note to that video I posted, in the video the guy was making a NHRA-qualification run which means he only needed a 9.something. The car makes its peak 568 rwhp @ 7,700 rpm, in the video he was shifting at 7,000 rpm. There is alot more in that car.

 

[wals9331]

Ill put money on the fact stock 03/04's run dead even with them.

:lol: :lol:

 

[Ben99GT]

Got a hardon for GT500s? :uh oh:

Nope. I have my complaints about them...

 

[Patisi]

Dude I dont know a single person with a stock terminator.As for me I got 496rwp before the 100shot so yeah I'll be hunting them.Remember the gearing is better on the cobra and smaller wheels and less weight.Also its going to be hard to get the shelby to a respectable weight I mean its almost 4,000lbs with no spare tire!It will take a lot of work to get it to stock terminator weight.I would say the cars will be about equall.It will come down to driver stock vs stock and the same with equall mods.Of course I could be and hope I am wrong cause I want to get one of those to sit along side my 04.

This is assuming that the GT500s will be stock for long, or is this with them having the same mods that you have? Because we dont know if the new owners will go to mods immediately, if they do then what? Oh by the way, I have a stock 04 Cobra 16K on the clock.

 

[07shelbyguy]

You are an idiot...

I was there...

go to www.alaskamotorsports.com and do a search for Broke...

you should know who you are talking to before you call B.S.

How am I an idiot just because almost every 03 cobra owner is running a 12.6 or higher? Even Evan Smith was only able to do a 12.6 in the 03 cobra and he is considered a really awesome driver to a lot of people. Plus, there are C6s only getting low 12's stock. If anyone thinks they're going to take out a GT500 stock with a 03 cobra, yeah, keep thinking that. If I remember right, the people who had the 01 cobras said the same thing when the 03 cobras came out. People will be doing 11's in the GT500 stock while the people who have 03 cobras will be getting 12's. I really am looking forward to the Shelby coming out which will be soon. Then the people who have there 03 cobras will finally shutup. A stock 03 cobra beating a GT500? Don't make me laugh! Won't ever happen unless the driver sucks at driving.

 

[Camaro99SS]

Just a note to that video I posted, in the video the guy was making a NHRA-qualification run which means he only needed a 9.something. The car makes its peak 568 rwhp @ 7,700 rpm, in the video he was shifting at 7,000 rpm. There is alot more in that car.

I went to the guy's site to find out info about that car but couldn't. What are the specs of that motor: compression, heads and or flow numbers, cams, OEM or aftermarket block, etc? Also, I'm assuming he was short shifting because the tune wasn't spot on? In other words, the car has sparked my curiosity. :coolman:

Jason

 

[07shelbyguy]

Dude I dont know a single person with a stock terminator.As for me I got 496rwp before the 100shot so yeah I'll be hunting them.Remember the gearing is better on the cobra and smaller wheels and less weight.Also its going to be hard to get the shelby to a respectable weight I mean its almost 4,000lbs with no spare tire!It will take a lot of work to get it to stock terminator weight.I would say the cars will be about equall.It will come down to driver stock vs stock and the same with equall mods.Of course I could be and hope I am wrong cause I want to get one of those to sit along side my 04.

Let's see, have you ever gotten a terminator to 600 rwhp with just a pulley swap, air intake upgrade, and computer tune? According to MM&FF, that's all you have to do with a Shelby to get 600 rwhp. Looks like the terminator has been terminated. When will the 03 cobra owners finally realize the Shelby is alot better then the 03 cobra, in every aspect, tests have proven that to be fact.

 

[black99lightnin]

Let's see, have you ever gotten a terminator to 600 rwhp with just a pulley swap, air intake upgrade, and computer tune? According to MM&FF, that's all you have to do with a Shelby to get 600 rwhp. Looks like the terminator has been terminated. When will the 03 cobra owners finally realize the Shelby is alot better then the 03 cobra, in every aspect, tests have proven that to be fact.

Did they actually acheive 600rwhp or is that just Theory. The 03/04 blower is garbage, let us swap to the bigger/better blower than see what happens. We'll still be far less under the $50K cost of admission of the GT500.

And like I stated earlier, I'm not worried about any GT500's. MT ET Street DR's on the way for insurance.

 

[Ben99GT]

I went to the guy's site to find out info about that car but couldn't. What are the specs of that motor: compression, heads and or flow numbers, cams, OEM or aftermarket block, etc? Also, I'm assuming he was short shifting because the tune wasn't spot on? In other words, the car has sparked my curiosity. :coolman:

Jason

You can find alot of info about the car at the Corral. The guys name is Al Papitto, he posts as Boss 330 on the Corral.

As for the specs, I'm not 100% positive. I *think* I remember reading the compression is ~12.5:1, heads are ported GT (as in GT40 supercar) heads that supposedly flow 370+ cfm on the intake, custom grinds, Sullivan intake manifold modded to work with the GT ports, BG carb, GT OEM aluminum block, dry sump oiling, and 426 Hemi plug wires.

The car was still bad with iron block, ported '00 R heads, wet sump, and EFI, making about 540 rwhp.

He said he short shifted because he only needed a 9-something to qualify for NHRA and he knew it would do it at 7,000. I guess he's saving the real numbers for an actual race. Or maybe he just doesn't want to show what it will really do over the internet just yet? I don't know. :shrug:

 

[07shelbyguy]

Did they actually acheive 600rwhp or is that just Theory. The 03/04 blower is garbage, let us swap to the bigger/better blower than see what happens. We'll still be far less under the $50K cost of admission of the GT500.

And like I stated earlier, I'm not worried about any GT500's. MT ET Street DR's on the way for insurance.

No, they didn't achieve that but I'm sure they have drove and worked on enough cars to know what it is capable of doing.

 

[black99lightnin]

No, they didn't achieve that but I'm sure they have drove and worked on enough cars to know what it is capable of doing.

So they're gonna pickup up 170rwhp with a tune and a pulley? :lol:

 

[Ben99GT]

Did they actually acheive 600rwhp or is that just Theory. The 03/04 blower is garbage, let us swap to the bigger/better blower than see what happens. We'll still be far less under the $50K cost of admission of the GT500.

And like I stated earlier, I'm not worried about any GT500's. MT ET Street DR's on the way for insurance.

No matter how much you love/hate the Terminators or love/hate the GT500s the truth is that the GT500s have more engine. A 5.4L with those GT40 heads (309/255 cfm stock) is going to have more ultimate potential and take to small mods even better than the Terminators do.

Unless the GT500s have a major weak-point, like rods, they are going to have the advantage over Terminators when mods are kept apples-to-apples.

I'm not even a GT500-lover, I don't ever plan on owning one but sometimes you have to give credit where credit is due.

 

[Patisi]

Why do we seem to assume that the GT500 Guys are not goignto mod their cars? Why?

 

[black99lightnin]

No matter how much you love/hate the Terminators or love/hate the GT500s the truth is that the GT500s have more engine. A 5.4L with those GT40 heads (309/255 cfm stock) is going to have more ultimate potential and take to small mods even better than the Terminators do.

Unless the GT500s have a major weak-point, like rods, they are going to have the advantage over Terminators when mods are kept apples-to-apples.

I'm not even a GT500-lover, I don't ever plan on owning one but sometimes you have to give credit where credit is due.

I like them and know they will beat a stock Terminator. However, the thread states will it beat "your" Terminator. Stock they'll be looking at my tailights. I'll buy a used one in a couple of years for $25-$30K. :rockon:

 

[Ben99GT]

So they're gonna pickup up 170rwhp with a tune and a pulley? :lol:

Tune, pulley and supporting mods such as CAI, exhaust, etc. then yea it's pretty likely.

I think ~600 rwhp (at least 580 or so) with a GT500 will be doable with basic BPU mods, assuming the blower isn't a huge P.O.S.

The GT40s can pick up ~120 rwhp with a tune/pulley and they aren't nearly as choked as the GT500s will be from the factory.

 

[black99lightnin]

Why do we seem to assume that the GT500 Guys are not goignto mod their cars? Why?

Whom is assuming this? This thread is not about a stock Terminator vs. a stock GT500. Or do you think you can beat a modded GT500. It clearly states "Do you think YOUR Terminator can take the GT500?". It says nothing about do we think they'll mod their cars. Yes my Terminator will spank a stock GT500. Thanks for playing the reading comprehension game. :bash:

 

[grimreefer]

:banana: The GT500 is invincible to a mere Cobra!!! epper:

 

[black99lightnin]

:banana: The GT500 is invincible to a mere Cobra!!! epper:

I've heard that MM&FF said if you change to aftermarket air in the tires it will run 10's.