DO you think your Terminator can take the GT500?

[Almo]

Here is a good read...

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/11151/2007-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500.html

And to think the GT500 can't edge out a C6... why? Because the freaking weight.

I would be buying one if it didn't weigh so much.

 

[04cobra408]

All I have to say. Shelby 5.4L into a 03-04 Cobra and 3.3L Whipple!.

nut nut jizz jizz, tight idea!

 

[99stanger]

drivers race, life is great the gt 500 is back and the challenger camaro are not too far around the corner ... muscle wars to help sweep some of this rice off the street and just to put the word out there first person to get their gt 500 and come up to worcester mass. to smoke me i will personally hand them 50 bucks just so i can be the first person in worcester to get my ass handed to me by a gt5 thank you

 

[Ben99GT]

Here is a good read...

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/11151/2007-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500.html

And to think the GT500 can't edge out a C6... why? Because the freaking weight.

I would be buying one if it didn't weigh so much.

It's not the weight, it's the stock drive-by-wire (ETC) calibration. The car is only a little over 200 lbs. heavier than the Terminators, 200-250 lbs. doesn't offset the ~70 rwhp difference between the cars.

Look at the new Motor Trend, 12.70s@116 mph; and Evan Smith pulled out a 12.2@117 mph at Milan. Any way you look at it, 116-117 mph is about 5 mph faster than what the stock Terminators run.

With just a tune these cars are going to be sweet. Too bad they're 40K.

 

[Almo]

It's not the weight, it's the stock drive-by-wire (ETC) calibration. The car is only a little over 200 lbs. heavier than the Terminators, 200-250 lbs. doesn't offset the ~70 rwhp difference between the cars.

Look at the new Motor Trend, 12.70s@116 mph; and Evan Smith pulled out a 12.2@117 mph at Milan. Any way you look at it, 116-117 mph is about 5 mph faster than what the stock Terminators run.

With just a tune these cars are going to be sweet. Too bad they're 40K.

No, it's not the drive-by-wire... It's the weight! oke: With 500 BHP look what the Z06 (putting down 440-460) is running in stock form, MPH as a trap speed, why, 3000 lbs. The GT500 having a live axle with 440-450 to the wheels (should be very close to what a stock will Dyno) should be pulling a 120 MPH trap speed. Yes 200-250 lbs. DOES offset the difference, this is where the live axle is helping what little it can in the GT500.

Take a terminator and pulley it, where it is putting down 440-450 to the wheels and look what it can run, trap speed wise. If you do not know, then do some searching, you will see just how much weight plays into the picture.

 

[Sharkster]

Some of the value has to be attributed to the Shelby name and the limited 3 year build #'s. The ford GT takes well to mod's so hopefully the GT500 will also. Let's face it the guy with the deepest pocket's will end up winning the drag race wheather they are in a 1982 mustang GT or a GT500, but at the end of the day only one will drive the GT500 home.

Unfortunately they are going to ruin the Cobra. First of all they are going to put the old mans name on it. That will pretty much ruin the name on the original "Shelby Cobra". That time has come and gone leave it alone, the Shelby Cobra was supreme for its time. They are going to make a whole series of V-6's..... that definitely just threw cold water on the hard on. What a joke

I cant wait to put an ass spanking on one of these when they come out

 

[Sharkster]

drivers race, life is great the gt 500 is back and the challenger camaro are not too far around the corner ... muscle wars to help sweep some of this rice off the street and just to put the word out there first person to get their gt 500 and come up to worcester mass. to smoke me i will personally hand them 50 bucks just so i can be the first person in worcester to get my ass handed to me by a gt5 thank you

Im hearing rumor of a 2007/2008 Toyota Supra coming about. Anyone else hearing it. Supposed to be a much different design with some really big ass-kicking twins on it.

 

[Ben99GT]

No, it's not the drive-by-wire... It's the weight! oke: With 500 BHP look what the Z06 (putting down 440-460) is running in stock form, MPH as a trap speed, why, 3000 lbs.

No, it's the drive-by-wire. Look at the gains in ET and trap speed (not to mention throttle response) that the 3V Mustangs and 3V F-150s get with a custom tune. We aren't talking about minor differences here, and the ET and trap speeds gains are coming primarily from tweaking the ETC calibrations.

The GT500 having a live axle with 440-450 to the wheels (should be very close to what a stock will Dyno) should be pulling a 120 MPH trap speed.

And it pulls 117 mph, bieng held back primarily due to ETC. You're kind of shooting yourself in the foot here, proving my point for me and all. I can all but garuantee you these cars will be capable of ~120 mph with nothing but a tune.

Yes 200-250 lbs. DOES offset the difference, this is where the live axle is helping what little it can in the GT500.

Um, as I've already stated a 70 rwhp advantage can't be offset by 200 - 250 lbs. No way, no how and unless God comes down from Heaven and rewrites the laws of physics it won't ever be the case.

Since it ISN'T the horsepower-to-weight ratio that is preventing the GT500 from destroying a Terminator stock for stock we have to look at other variables. Fortunately, Ford ETC calibrations are known for their wonderful characteristics of bogging, laziness, and taking away far too much control from the driver. It's simple physics, a 3,900 lb. car with 440 rwhp is going to be faster than a 3,700 lb. car with 370 rwhp UNLESS there is another variable thrown into the equation.

What can those other variables be? Suspension? Live axle is in the GT500s favor. Peaky power band? A 5.4L with a hybrid roots blower and GT(40) heads are in the GT500s favor. Gearing? A draw. Drive-By-Wire? Standard throttle cable in the Terminators favor.

Take a terminator and pulley it, where it is putting down 440-450 to the wheels and look what it can run, trap speed wise. If you do not know, then do some searching, you will see just how much weight plays into the picture.

So are you saying the reason the 440 rwhp Shelby isn't showing better ETs than stock 370 rwhp Terminators is due solely to the weight? Are you saying that, or are you trying to take the debate off in another direction? I really can't tell; and if you are trying to argue the lack of a difference in ETs between these two car is due to the weight you seriously need to sit down and learn the car basics.

I'll try to spell if out for you. The 2003-2004 Cobra (as it leaves the showroom) carries roughly 8.7 lbs for every horsepower (based on a 3,665lb curb weight and 420 flywheel horsepower) while the GT500 carries roughly 7.8 lbs. for every horsepower (based on a 3,920lb curb weight and 500 flywheel horsepower). The horsepower to weight ratio is SOLIDLY in the GT500s favor bro, the reason the GT500 isn't annihilating the Terminators stock for stock is due to ONE factor and ONE factor alone, DRIVE-BY-WIRE.

 

[black99lightnin]

No, it's the drive-by-wire. Look at the gains in ET and trap speed (not to mention throttle response) that the 3V Mustangs and 3V F-150s get with a custom tune. We aren't talking about minor differences here, and the ET and trap speeds gains are coming primarily from tweaking the ETC calibrations.



And it pulls 117 mph, bieng held back primarily due to ETC. You're kind of shooting yourself in the foot here, proving my point for me and all. I can all but garuantee you these cars will be capable of ~120 mph with nothing but a tune.



Um, as I've already stated a 70 rwhp advantage can't be offset by 200 - 250 lbs. No way, no how and unless God comes down from Heaven and rewrites the laws of physics it won't ever be the case.

Since it ISN'T the horsepower-to-weight ratio that is preventing the GT500 from destroying a Terminator stock for stock we have to look at other variables. Fortunately, Ford ETC calibrations are known for their wonderful characteristics of bogging, laziness, and taking away far too much control from the driver. It's simple physics, a 3,900 lb. car with 440 rwhp is going to be faster than a 3,700 lb. car with 370 rwhp UNLESS there is another variable thrown into the equation.

What can those other variables be? Suspension? Live axle is in the GT500s favor. Peaky power band? A 5.4L with a hybrid roots blower and GT(40) heads are in the GT500s favor. Gearing? A draw. Drive-By-Wire? Standard throttle cable in the Terminators favor.



So are you saying the reason the 440 rwhp Shelby isn't showing better ETs than stock 370 rwhp Terminators is due solely to the weight? Are you saying that, or are you trying to take the debate off in another direction? I really can't tell; and if you are trying to argue the lack of a difference in ETs between these two car is due to the weight you seriously need to sit down and learn the car basics.

I'll try to spell if out for you. The 2003-2004 Cobra (as it leaves the showroom) carries roughly 8.7 lbs for every horsepower (based on a 3,665lb curb weight and 420 flywheel horsepower) while the GT500 carries roughly 7.8 lbs. for every horsepower (based on a 3,920lb curb weight and 500 flywheel horsepower). The horsepower to weight ratio is SOLIDLY in the GT500s favor bro, the reason the GT500 isn't annihilating the Terminators stock for stock is due to ONE factor and ONE factor alone, DRIVE-BY-WIRE.

Got a hardon for GT500s? :uh oh:

 

[broke7]

I cant wait to piss off some new GT500 owners, especially the young ones who mom and daddy buy one for them ahhaha.

Its gonna be a nice car no doubt, capable of 11's at 120 with a tire and small bolt on's maybe stock, but better bring some mods, more than a tune, and tires to the show if you wanna play with the average KB or well tuned/good running upper/lower ported eaton car.

stock sucks.....not to many stock terminators running around these days. On a sidenote, ive been 12.1@114 in a stock terminator with tires before

 

[DaleM]

I have never been beat by a Shelby and have won against every Shelby that has been at the event.

 

[Almo]

No, it's the drive-by-wire. Look at the gains in ET and trap speed (not to mention throttle response) that the 3V Mustangs and 3V F-150s get with a custom tune. We aren't talking about minor differences here, and the ET and trap speeds gains are coming primarily from tweaking the ETC calibrations.



And it pulls 117 mph, bieng held back primarily due to ETC. You're kind of shooting yourself in the foot here, proving my point for me and all. I can all but garuantee you these cars will be capable of ~120 mph with nothing but a tune.



Um, as I've already stated a 70 rwhp advantage can't be offset by 200 - 250 lbs. No way, no how and unless God comes down from Heaven and rewrites the laws of physics it won't ever be the case.

Since it ISN'T the horsepower-to-weight ratio that is preventing the GT500 from destroying a Terminator stock for stock we have to look at other variables. Fortunately, Ford ETC calibrations are known for their wonderful characteristics of bogging, laziness, and taking away far too much control from the driver. It's simple physics, a 3,900 lb. car with 440 rwhp is going to be faster than a 3,700 lb. car with 370 rwhp UNLESS there is another variable thrown into the equation.

What can those other variables be? Suspension? Live axle is in the GT500s favor. Peaky power band? A 5.4L with a hybrid roots blower and GT(40) heads are in the GT500s favor. Gearing? A draw. Drive-By-Wire? Standard throttle cable in the Terminators favor.



So are you saying the reason the 440 rwhp Shelby isn't showing better ETs than stock 370 rwhp Terminators is due solely to the weight? Are you saying that, or are you trying to take the debate off in another direction? I really can't tell; and if you are trying to argue the lack of a difference in ETs between these two car is due to the weight you seriously need to sit down and learn the car basics.

I'll try to spell if out for you. The 2003-2004 Cobra (as it leaves the showroom) carries roughly 8.7 lbs for every horsepower (based on a 3,665lb curb weight and 420 flywheel horsepower) while the GT500 carries roughly 7.8 lbs. for every horsepower (based on a 3,920lb curb weight and 500 flywheel horsepower). The horsepower to weight ratio is SOLIDLY in the GT500s favor bro, the reason the GT500 isn't annihilating the Terminators stock for stock is due to ONE factor and ONE factor alone, DRIVE-BY-WIRE.

I am not trying to argue with you but I don't think the drive-by-wire plays that much into it. Yes it sucks but look at some of the Mustang GT's out, running low 13s and their curves are very very similar to the Mach 1's yet there is no difference in times and new ones weigh a bit more. Have heard few say, the drive train loss is less on the new ones due to the efficiency of the trannys. Both are live axles so the drive-by-wire isn't the true variable when looking at the weight of the GT500 compared to the Terminator. The GT500's curve will be a bit better, especially with a 331 + FI and the live axle is help backing it up when it comes to stock for stock times.

Also, miss-read the part about the offset. 70 hp will not counter the 200-250 lbs. difference.

 

[Patisi]

I'll try to spell if out for you. The 2003-2004 Cobra (as it leaves the showroom) carries roughly 8.7 lbs for every horsepower (based on a 3,665lb curb weight and 420 flywheel horsepower) while the GT500 carries roughly 7.8 lbs. for every horsepower (based on a 3,920lb curb weight and 500 flywheel horsepower). The horsepower to weight ratio is SOLIDLY in the GT500s favor bro, the reason the GT500 isn't annihilating the Terminators stock for stock is due to ONE factor and ONE factor alone, DRIVE-BY-WIRE.

Ata Boy!, I have been trying to get folks to see that it is power to weight ratio not gross weight that matters. By the way, there seems to be a myth out here about the stock hp of the Cobra, some really believe it comes underrated from the factory, I have not seen numbers to prove it. The power to weight ratio is 9.4 at the fly wheel. I see the car at 390 HP and 3700 lbs.

The other factor is what ever the power is at the wheel, the suspension has to make sure the tires stay on the pavement to ensure that all that power is used to propel the car, and the tires have to be good enough to also do their part in the equation.

I still feel that the GT500 will be one heck of a car, I am just not sure how much of the criticism from Blue Oval guys is because there is a new King on the Block displacing our beloved Terminator, versus how much is true criticism for the specs of the car.

 

[Almo]

If the GT500 Coupe would have weighed in around 3500-3600, I would be picking one up. I just can't get over the weight, that's just me but I have seen what weighted and non weighted cars with similar mods in the same type of cars can do and the difference between them.

My Mustang GT weighed in a little over 3200 with me in it. It put down 658/576 at 6000 rpms (fuel issues) but it felt like it had 200 more HP than my Cobra (sitting right at 600 to the wheels), reason being, weight. My GT would have run circles around my Cobra and it wasn't due to the 60 rwhp difference either.

 

[Almo]

Ata Boy!, I have been trying to get folks to see that it is power to weight ratio not gross weight that matters. By the way, there seems to be a myth out here about the stock hp of the Cobra, some really believe it comes underrated from the factory, I have not seen numbers to prove it. The power to weight ratio is 9.4 at the fly wheel. I see the car at 390 HP and 3700 lbs.

The other factor is what ever the power is at the wheel, the suspension has to make sure the tires stay on the pavement to ensure that all that power is used to propel the car, and the tires have to be good enough to also do their part in the equation.

I still feel that the GT500 will be one heck of a car, I am just not sure how much of the criticism from Blue Oval guys is because there is a new King on the Block displacing our beloved Terminator, versus how much is true criticism for the specs of the car.

Lots could care less if the GT500 will be considered a new King of the street or not. Some people don't veiw it like that. In todays society, the person with more money that has the want to be faster and have a faster car will be the one that has the faster car. Simple as that! For the underating of the Terminator... sure the heck is, seen lots dyno 375-385 in stock form even with the paper filter. Like stated above, it's more like 420-430 to the crank.

 

[dtheo]

Any car can beat another in a race with
1) a good driver
2) enough mods/money put into it

There are too many variables...
You will see GT500 smoke Terminators and Terminators smoke GT500's.
:coolman:

+1, You are exactly right. How come there are a billion forums talking about the same thing........who will beat the GT500 and who will lose and why etc. Can we move on to a better topic. Damn I wish school wasn't done with. Got about 5million more users all gossiping about same thing. I have not heard one person talk about what they would do to the GT500 if they owned one. I'll start, I'd lower it with some lowering springs to get rid of that ridiculas stock ride height then change out the stock SC for a Kenne Bell.



:nono:

 

[Patisi]

Lots could care less if the GT500 will be considered a new King of the street or not. Some people don't veiw it like that. In todays society, the person with more money that has the want to be faster and have a faster car will be the one that has the faster car. Simple as that! For the underating of the Terminator... sure the heck is, seen lots dyno 375-385 in stock form even with the paper filter. Like stated above, it's more like 420-430 to the crank.

Hmmm. I have not seen these numbers. I have read of an underating but I have yet to see it at the Dyno. I wish mine had 375 RWHP in stock form because it is stock and I do not come close to these RWHP numbers in stock form. Maybe the California cars are slower because of State Emission Regulations. The Car Mags also do not report these RWHP numbers either.

 

[Almo]

Hmmm. I have not seen these numbers. I have read of an underating but I have yet to see it at the Dyno. I wish mine had 375 RWHP in stock form because it is stock and I do not come close to these RWHP numbers in stock form. Maybe the California cars are slower because of State Emission Regulations. The Car Mags also do not report these RWHP numbers either.

You will just have to take my word for it, I don't know how many I have seen on the Dyno stock making these numbers. Few of the guys would get talking into a filter kit installed and the couple that I seen with just a K&N kit put on them pulled jut a bit over 400 to the wheels. No tuning and or tweaking, just an air kit.

 

[JUGRNAUT]

Ill put money on the fact stock 03/04's run dead even with them.

 

[07shelbyguy]

Ill put money on the fact stock 03/04's run dead even with them.

You're crazy a stock 03 won't come close to a stock GT500 i can promise.