Demon on the Loose...

[gimmie11s]

Right, but I posted a video of it doing just that, and you posted words of it not... Nothing personal but that doesn't help your argument.

Like I said, a bolt on gt500 will hang with a demon. Mineshaft times will be similar, high 9 to low 10 at 137-142. (140 for the demons because of the aforementioned aero bite)

Average and realistic times will be in the mid 10's at 135.

Slow and imperiled times will be in the high 10's and low 11's at 130+.

I compared a decently fast hero time for a bolt on gt500 vs a very very limit hero time for the dodge. Mph went to the manual transmission ford, timeslip went to the auto demon with a stripped interior. Both are great cars.

That's wonderful. You post cars that are what one would call "full bolt on" plus nitrous (islander033's car) and attempt to fit those into your narrative of "tune, tire, pulley Trinity cars will hang with a Demon."

You are completely delusional.

Please find me a tune, tire, pulley GT500 that runs 9s at 140+ mph.

I'll go ahead and wait.

 

[gimmie11s]

A trinity weighs 3900lbs. With 700-730whp, trinitys will hang with demons. .

 

[ZYBORG]

tt went off the deep end... lol

We went from talking about how it is expected for a Demon to not run its best with a rookie driver and subpar conditions to making this all about the Trinity with mods.

Jesus tt, get it together! You are spazzing out like the pill.

Going back to the original argument, there is no need for you to take a dump on a Demon because it didnt run its best at a crap track, with shit conditions and a rookie driver.

Shit is to be expected man. Every car is like that.

PS: 5g ZL1 handles better than a Trinity 500. This is not even close man. I own a Trinity and have driven a few different ZL1s. Wish it wasnt the case, but it is true man. Just the way it is.

 

[ZYBORG]

That's wonderful. You post cars that are what one would call "full bolt on" plus nitrous (islander033's car) and attempt to fit those into your narrative of "tune, tire, pulley Trinity cars will hang with a Demon."

You are completely delusional.

Please find me a tune, tire, pulley GT500 that runs 9s at 140+ mph.

I'll go ahead and wait.

Fyi. The video he posted wasnt islanders car. It was a Trinity car.

But who the hell knows what it has...

 

[gimmie11s]

Well other one appeared to be one of those Canada cars that hang with ALKHEINZ. He and his buddies are FAST, but not as fast as TT purports them to be.

 

[Fourcam380]

Fourcam, I completely agree that a singular scenario, such as the tr3160 in a gt350 and camaro v6, is not enough empirical data to draw such a conclusion. What cannot be discredited is the mathematical fact that an exact amount of torque (force) is needed to turn an exact amount of rotations within that transmission assuming similar fluids and freedom to spin (like what is connect to the transmission and drivetrain etc.

I've drawn that conclusion from seeing exactly the same results on many engine swap/trans swap/dyno stock/modded etc examples over the last 10 years.

I don't have easy access to proper equipment to test the notion, but as a proudly flawed human, I stand by the idea.

Look at the import scene. Those engines are far more susceptible to drivetrain loss. 10tq on a 200wtq b16 Honda is hugely noticeable, and lots of dyno testing on small engines has shown the difference between various transmission losses, etc.

Interesting note, transmission fluid can impact transmission loss decently. One thing i read about 4 years ago showed back to back a 3000gt picking up something like 7whp and 5wtq on the dyno with some then new transmission fluid that was formulated for heat resistance and decreased frictional whatever. It was new regular transmission fluid vs that stuff so not just old vs new. It may have been a 300zx, I honestly forget.

As you may have ascertained, I don't disagree with you in that I also believe that the standards of 15-17.5-18-20% etc are no longer as accurate as they once may have been. However I can't sit here and say what they are or should be simply because I haven't spent any real time testing the theory, nor can I throw out even ballpark numbers or what should be for the same reason.

Also and just as importantly. There are lots of things and junctions of these things that eat energy aside from the trans. They all vary in size, weight, as well as moment of inertia. What I'm saying is I don't understand how someone can get so specific about the assumptions made to one part of the puzzle but completely negate the value of the contributions or inefficiencies of the rest of the driveline as well.

 

[MarcSpaz]

This has been two pages of some ridiculous banter. First... in several video's done with Auto VLogers I have seen, the guy who ran the 9.65 said flat out that not everyone was going to see that number and that he got it because he's a pro driver with several hundred passes in the Demon. The point it that the car is capable... its up to the driver to make it happen.

As far as the A8 HC vs. a 13/14 GT500... I had both at the same time and ran both. 100% bone stock, both cars typically did 11.6-11.7 and they both pulled a best of 11.1's. MPH on the HC was typically 1 or 2 MPH faster, but both around 124 pretty consistently.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

I can handle the heat, not really feeling any tension, but I can say this has been a huge amount of side track that was unexpected.

Anyways, that car I posted a link of didn't have nos, parts were listed in its description.

My point was a bpu trinity with slicks and skinnys will run basically door to door with a demon. From a dig, auto is better. No question. Up top, the gt500 has better drag coefficient.

I havent gone off a deep end. Even marcspa5 who has no reason to back me up basically just validated what I said about 126 vs 127mph and times.

Bottom line, a manual trans 3900lbs car with 700-730whp and slightly better drag coefficient is a great car to go head to head vs an auto 41-4400lbs 730-770whp (****, would a race gas tune for the the trinity be unfair play? 770whp trinity to much gun for this gang fight?) car with slightly worse drag coefficient.

 

[gimmie11s]

You've had a few hours to find me a tune, exhaust, pulley, tire-- trinity car that runs 9s at 140+.

Understandably, you failed.

Need more time or should you go ahead and retract that foolish claim?

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

4 cam, using so many numbers was very (unintentionally) overly simplifying my point. I was using numbers to draw correlations. The only absolute in any of that is relative constant of torque needed to actually spin the transmission. It's just coincidence that the v6 camaro and gt350 seem to lose almost the exact same power while using the same transmission.

You say I failed to mention it, but I did, regarding externalities. I stated that wheel weight, tire height, rear gear, driveshaft weight/length, etc all play into it. I think I used the exact phrasing of wheel/tire weight and height, drivetrain layout, etc etc all take up 1wtq here and 2wtq there. I didn't get very specific though.

I supplied the idea in what I thought was pretty general but example rich ways to paint a broad picture. I also said guestimations about an na mod mill spun by a tr6060 to 7k vs a big block roots car spinning 4500 with a munch as an apples vs girrafs comparison because there simply are so many variables that play into it all.

The underlying premise is that the transmission itself requires a certain amount of torque to be spinning at xyz rpm. The remaining torque that will be lost will be directly affected by the remaining factors, much like engine hp is directly related to what accessories are in play on the accessory system, their pulleys, what amount of heat sink or blower slip is present, how well the compression ratio plays with the combustion chambers, how port velocity impedes flow, what exhaust tubing limits or optimizes scavenging, how accurately the spark distribution is working, how the atomization of fuel is forming, on and on and on and on.

I'm a realist, not a scientist or even an engineer. But the general concept that 15% is the loss seems ridiculous to me because every person with a 700whp car claims to have 805 crank hp. And every guy with 1000whp says it's an 1150hp engine...

If the car makes has a 1000tq capable drivetrain/trans and a nice trans cooler, and makes 500whp on 5psi and red lines/fuel cuts at 7500rpm, losing let's say 75tq to do so, taking that car to 10psi and making let's say 750whp should not mean that the car loses an addition 37tq in my honest opinion. Let's say this is all generalized example. Yes I'm using numbers to state the idea, but I'm not saying these numbers are stone or iron clad, I'm just painting the idea with realistic numeric examples.

Thermal stress/deflection might mean the 750whp pull is experience 1-2% deflection, let's say an addition 3-5tq, sure I can get behind that, but assuming trans temp is the exact same, I'd need to see an analysis of what physical strain and deflection the transmission experiences as the force gets closer and closer to the rated tolerance. The tq capacity rating criteria would also come into play, as would environmental ambiance and so many variables. My point is just as power increases, tq loss to drive the system doesn't necessarily remain the percentage of loss at let's say 700wtq that it was at 500wtq in the exact same car or very similar car.

****, I'm bored of this. I'm going to sleep.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

Oh great, ok gimme 11's, I'll find you a car. Gimme about 15 minutes. Just saw your second post and decided to bite.

 

[gimmie11s]

Hint

Search for ALLKHEINZ. He's prob the only one close, but he also has a two step, and vmp blower.

All the other guys are running a lower, rear end gears, etc etc.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forum...er-9-second-bolt-on-2013-shelby-gt-500-a.html

At gimme 11's,
I don't claim to be a scientist or even care for the method at this hour. If you find this is invalid, send a statement to this thread and I'll have my committee review your findings and decide if I want to bother putting more resources into this matter.

At this time, I'm closing the office for the night and hopping on Netflix, see ya tomorrow. Wear that tie tomorrow that adds to the look that you are a $3 bill short of a true salesmen and we'll talk about a promotion or raise upon further review.

 

[gimmie11s]

Lol

Fine. Let's reconvene tomorrow.

And the car on the vette forum is a long way away from your lofty claim-- and you know it!

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

Looks like he had oil separator, hood struts, rotors, even cooling mods!!!!

I don't know what's changed, but when I had a bpu 03 cobra making 473whp, people didn't bitch about the pulley combo or if it was race gas tune... What's happened to Svtp?

"It's bolt ons until you go to a lower pulley! Even though that just BOLTS ON"

I call internal head/cam/engine work non bolt on, and unlike most I call a swapped supercharger a non bolt on mod because it's changing the stuff that came factory.

Turbos would be a bolt on mod just as a tvs or kb or whipple is if that was the case.

In my view, doing tweaks and bolt ons to stock equipment is basic performance upgrades.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

He even had an lithium battery kit! And drag racing axles! And a clutch!!!! It's all lies, the reds are here! The reds are here!

Get real man, that was the first result when I googled 9 second gt500.

 

[gimmie11s]

So you prove my point then back peddle your way out of the whole thing by completely changing your position to now allow "bpu full bolt ons" anyting other than internal engine work.

LMAO.. that is the weakest shit ive seen.

Im still waiting for that tune/pulley/exhaust Trinity car on a tire that runs 9s at 140+... your words not mine partner. SO SHOW ME that car!

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

Back pedal? Please you are off your rocker. The first Google result was there clean and easy. I'm not putting more time into this.

•hero runs look similar
•person who owned both at the same time said youre wrong
•the Internet has proved youre wrong
•I proved you're wrong already.
•you proved you're wrong
•George Lucas proved you're wrong.

Pulley/tune/slicks/bolt ons is what that guy had. Hood struts, rotors, axle shafts, clutch, oil seperators etc are in no way hp mods bud. They are longevity and personal choice mods.

I guess these stock hellcats going 10.8's at 127 aren't stock either because they have fuzzy dice hanging from the mirror, or chrome tire valve stem covers or window tint or worst of all, they may not have the gas that was in the tank when delivered! They may even have vanity license plates and heaven forbid, blind spot mirrors!!!!

What if they aired down the tires!!! The tires may only be running 24psi! The heavens have collided!

Dude I found the cryptonite you said didn't exist. It killed your story. Now you say pulleys aren't bolt on mods. Ok.

Tell any 03 cobra owner with a lower and upper pulley that his lower pulley is a race car mod not a bolt on and they'll laugh at you.

These are $200 parts. Get real. Installing headers is way harder than a lower pulley and almost everyone calls exhaust work bolt ons. "Bolted on a full exhaust last weekend"

"Bolted on a throttle body and plenum"

"Moved the battery to the trunk and switched to a lithium battery"

"Took out the back seat and spare tire"

None of that is unreasonable basic performance mods. Half the stuff is free or cheap to do.

Wanna talk about deep modding? How's putting an intake manifold from a race car company that doesn't have iacv's, or injector provisions. Get that ****er to work right. We did that with my fr500c intake. That was a bitch. Pick up some fgt heads and fully port/polish those puppies. Outfit them for very high rpm and stress. That'll run you more than a damn hellion turbo kit. Pick up a great set of custom cams, and have them properly degrees by an expert. That'll cost you more than a TVS. These are not basic performance mods. While you're at it, throw in a custom small block that's over bored, and stroked to 5.3, with coated and cut Pistons. That'll cost you almost $10k by itself. Those are not basic performance upgrades.

Basic upgrades on sc cars are bolt ons like intake, exhaust, pulley setups, wheels and tires, etc.

Give up, you're so far out on this crap that it's laughable.

 

[gimmie11s]

Cliffs please?

Did you have your wife proof read that 37 times before you clicked reply?

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

Sure, cliffs: I'm right, you're wrong.

·^) please reFUnd me my time, thanks.