Before this thread goes off topic on who can make more power on stock internals and other crap, do you feel the 2015 Mustang will be on par with the C7 on a road course, acceleration, braking, etc???
Could the new S550 outperform Chevys new C7 for nearly half the cost?
- Thread starter Fenixfire
- Start date
Before this thread goes off topic on who can make more power on stock internals and other crap, do you feel the 2015 Mustang will be on par with the C7 on a road course, acceleration, braking, etc???
I think it will perform close enough to the c7 where chevy will not want to bring the camaro to that level of performance. Just my two cents.
Ditto, Chevrolet set the bar pretty high, the chances that the heavier mustang will out perform is slim.
The new Camaro is virtually guaranteed to have Chevys alpha platform and the LS4. That's a significant weight loss and a serious bump in HP/torque. Ford is going to have their hands full with the Camaro and probably shouldn't spend much time worrying about the Vette. Statistically the Camaro should be a superior car. I won't buy one because Chevys design department doesn't understand the term aesthetic. Ford gets "it"...
I'm really looking forward to Ford sorting the issues out in 2015 and then making a purchase in 2016. I'm hearing rumors that the Coyote will sees its way out the door in 2017 or 2018. I'm not sure if its true, however.
I'm really looking forward to Ford sorting the issues out in 2015 and then making a purchase in 2016. I'm hearing rumors that the Coyote will sees its way out the door in 2017 or 2018. I'm not sure if its true, however.
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if the new mustang gt gets 475hp,the next CRAPMARO from the Gigantic Mistake will be done before it hits the ground.i doubt the next SCRAPMARO has hp like that for their basic ss.
I do not feel that it will simply based on the C7's myriad track ready systems including the aerodynamics, cooling, the ability to create 1.05 G of grip on relatively narrow tires, and the trick integrated electronic diff. The C7 starts quite a bit higher in price than the Mustang so it makes sense that its base chassis is a better basis for a performance car. The GT500 may be close or better in areas like acceleration but I believe the C7 will be more cohesive as far as road course laps are concerned.
No one is paying attention to the fact that the C7 is able to match or exceed 1.05Gs on the skidpad on a narrow 245/ 285 mm tire combo. The Alpha based Camaro will not be easily beaten by the Mustang.
GM has never had a problem making power.....the base C7s LT1 already makes 455 hp, and Ford will not be able to match its power under the curve, and torque curve with the 5.0 even if they match it for power. I personally think that 475 hp is pie in the sky, and the engine improvements are to improve the power band as much as they are for peak power.
there was a BOSS SX that FORD made that had 500hp from a N/A 5.0,so if FORD wanted to, they could just blow the new CRAPMARO away.
epper:
No the S550 will have trouble getting out of it's own way. It's going to weigh 100 pounds more. So if it has the same horsepower as the 2013 it will be slower. Maybe faster in curves, but slower where it counts.
there was a BOSS SX that FORD made that had 500hp from a N/A 5.0,so if FORD wanted to, they could just blow the new CRAPMARO away.
Did you even read my post?
Germeezy1 said:
There is no way Ford will match the much larger LT1 in these areas with port injection. No amount of dancing peppers or Camaro insults will change that either.
epper:
Yes, the 5.0 may not match it in area under the curve when it comes to low end tq production from the engine itself. But don't forget that the 5.0 can be aggressively geared since it generally is able to rev higher, meaning it will be able to match it through torque multiplication through the gears. As is, the 5.0 transmission is aggressively geared as well, with only one overdrive vs. two for the Camaros. The revised 5.0 will be fine when it comes to matching tq as it was when vs the LS3Did you even read my post?
There is no way Ford will match the much larger LT1 in these areas with port injection. No amount of dancing peppers or Camaro insults will change that either.
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remember,the zl1 was only i think 2 seconds faster than the BOSS 302.at leguna seca,the zl1 did 1:39.18,and the BOSS did it in 1:39.50.so again,i dont see the mustang having a problem with power to beat out the CRAPMARO.:banana:Did you even read my post?
There is no way Ford will match the much larger LT1 in these areas with port injection. No amount of dancing peppers or Camaro insults will change that either.
The new S550 will HAVE to be very aggressively geared just to keep up with the new Camaro. As ugly as the Camaro is do not underestimate it. The new Alpha platform was designed from the ground up to be light using the gram strategy it supposedly knocks off 4-500 pounds putting it at or below mustang weight. I hope the S550 loses some weight but with just a redesigned S197 platform and only mild weight reduction listed I'm not holding my breath. The new coyote doesn't look like it adds a lot of power but brings up the power curve a lot. It looks like it should approach LS3 level torque curve which is great but the new LT1 puts out a 7 liter LS7 torque curve which is going to be impossible to match with 5 liters even with direct injection. As far as gearing the new automatic 8L90 will probably be geared more aggressively then any tranny offered (TR6070, MT82, 6R80) Well the MT82 is more aggressively geared then the new 7 speed manual It has a much lower overdrive (the TR6070). Combine that with a much better power curve and lighter weight and you have a car that won't have to be nudered by CAFE standards for a long while. It's still too ugly to buy but the next one will be a true contender not like the overweight pig it is now.
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nice post!:rockon:
you said some interesting things,so i went back and looked at the weight of the muscle cars right now.the GT500 is at 3882lbs.the gt is at 3580lbs.the zl1 is 4118,and the ss is 3860.so if 400lbs is taken from the ss it will be around 3460lbs.if 400lbs.is taken from the zl1 it will be around 3718lbs.if 200lbs.is taken from the new mustang it should be around 3380lbs,and the GT500 would be around 3682lbs.so the weight could be close as you said.i think the gt will take the ss because it has a motor that can rev alot higher than the ss.
unfortunately I do not see the S550 losing 200 pounds. I believe that rumor came from the ecoboost 4 being 200 pounds lighter then the 2014 GT. I just don't see it. Ford said they used more aluminum in the front suspension and aluminum fenders. But on an S197 going to a total tubular front Subframe/A arms and fiberglass fenders was only a 60 pound weight reduction. With a larger/more luxurious car with IRS I just can't see significant weight reduction if any at all. However I do believe the 400 pound weight drop on GM is accurate since the CTS switched to the alpha platform and car and driver saw a 390 pound weight drop from 2013 ZETA platform to 2014 Alpha platform.
As far as being faster being able to rev higher does not mean much in the scheme of things. Being able to rev higher gives you two abilities. You can make more power per liter for a given engine size. And you can run more gearing to compensate for the low end torque disadvantage a smaller higher reving engine. The coyote high rpm from a hp standpoint let's it compensate for having to do more with less displacement. And from a torque standpoint the high rpm let's you run more gear to compensate for the lack of torque vs a bigger motor. But your not creating an advantage your just leveling the playing field of GM having an extra 1200cc to work with. From 2011-2014 Ford has been the faster car solely because of weight with that advantage gone or diminished the future pony car battles will be interesting. The coyote makes amazing power per liter but from a performance standpoint disregarding displacement it is on par with the LS3 and no match for the LT1.
If you look at the LS3 vs 5.0
stock for stock they make similar power
bolt on for bolt on they make similar power with a slight advantage to the 5.0
heads/cam/s upgrades they make similar power with a slight advantage for the LS3
which is amazing since the coyote is working with 1200 less cc. It does this because of its high rpm capability.
At any of these levels the LS3 makes way more torque then the 5.0 but the mustang's run more gearing in a lighter car so it equals out.
The LT1 in a car of less or equal weight changes things considerably. Especially with an 8 speed auto with ridiculous gearing.
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Unfortunately Ford seems to be adding 100 pounds to the new mustang. Which means the mustang will weigh 3600 pounds and get it's fat ass handed to it by the 3500 pound camaro.
if that is true remember if they allow the gt to rev like the BOSS 302 with the right hp,the mustang will still come out on top.to back up my idea on that,at leguna seca a zl1 did a 1:39.18,and the BOSS 302 a 1:39.50.i know the BOSS was lighter than the zl1,but that high reving motor almost beat a car that has 580 vs its 444hp.
The GT isn't going to rev like the Boss they announced it will have the old long runner manifold and the same redline. Like I said RPM does not mean much. RPM let's you compensate for the lack of displacement. The high rpm of the coyote counteracts the higher displacement of the LS3. An engine only needs to be revved high enough to hit it's target output. A higher redline does very little for speed vs a engine that makes the same power at a lower redline. The principal thing when it comes to road course racing is weight. That's how you go to a track day and see guy in 150 hp low revving Miata's murdering cars with much better higher revving engines. And besides all tracks are different. tracks with longer straight's always will favor a ZL1 vs a BOSS LS just cherry picking one lap time at one track doesn't tell the whole story.
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Think of it like this. If you are on a road course and Car A is operating an engine between 5500-7500 rpm and in that powerband the engine make between 420-450 hp. Is it any different then Car B operating an engine between 4500-6500 rpm and in that powerband the engine is making 420-450 hp. If anything Car A is at a heat/durability disadvantage.
The RPM is just how high you have to go to make your power. It increases power per liter but does not make the car faster vs a similar car with a bigger engine/lower redline/ same hp. It let's you run more gearing to compensate for having less torque.
The RPM is just how high you have to go to make your power. It increases power per liter but does not make the car faster vs a similar car with a bigger engine/lower redline/ same hp. It let's you run more gearing to compensate for having less torque.
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that one lap tells alot of the story,on how it kept up with a car that had alot more power than it did.time will tell how these things play out.
epper:Users who are viewing this thread
