im compound boosting my 99 cobra with a 5.3 stroker fully ported heads mmr stage 3 turbo cam an hellions 67mm turbos.... there anyone here running it that want to tell me bout there build an what kind of numbers they got?
compound boost... whos running it!!!!
- Thread starter whislincobra99
- Start date
- Status
compound boost is a waste in my opinion. its a restriction to the turbos. its harder to tune and more money.
just my opinions.
i was gonna do compound til i did my research
only positive ive found was the "cool" factor that was about it
just my opinions.
i was gonna do compound til i did my research
only positive ive found was the "cool" factor that was about it
Yep it's cool cause you can tell people you are building it. Once you are done you realize it is crap and you switch to just the turbos.
tough crowd...lol
don't really know anyone running compound boost to tell the truth. it's definitely cool, but for volumetric efficiency, straight turbos is the way to do it. good luck with the build!:beer:
don't really know anyone running compound boost to tell the truth. it's definitely cool, but for volumetric efficiency, straight turbos is the way to do it. good luck with the build!:beer:
I've seen a Compound Boost Terminator with Twins and an Eaton put down over 1000RW!
No one said it won't work. But it's not the most efficient way to make power. It's pretty simple if u sit down and do your research.
Now being turbo and nitrous is a good power combo. So is supercharged and nitrous.
If your looking got good "cool" power then compound boost maybe for you. If u want max power with ease of tuning stick to a singer power adder.
Now being turbo and nitrous is a good power combo. So is supercharged and nitrous.
If your looking got good "cool" power then compound boost maybe for you. If u want max power with ease of tuning stick to a singer power adder.
Here is a good article I found:
2003 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra Bassani Exhaust - Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords Magazine
I would like to try a compound boost setup. From what I have read The car may not have as much peak power but the power band ends up flatter and is better for a street setup.
There something to be said for simplicity though.
2003 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra Bassani Exhaust - Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords Magazine
I would like to try a compound boost setup. From what I have read The car may not have as much peak power but the power band ends up flatter and is better for a street setup.
There something to be said for simplicity though.
A compound cobra will kill a ts car plain and simple, won't make the same peak numbers a similar turbo setup car would make minus the blower but once you achieve that power level i'd assume I would rather have more of a feel for the power vs it just hitting once everything is spooled. My single turbo car just dead footing would be a turd, turd, little bit faster than a turd, then holy **** we are rolling out... It's definitely the more involved setup but I think it owuld be a blast to drive over just a blower car or just a turbo car.
I'd love to look into a compound boost configuration. I don't entirely agree with the "TT or go home" mentality. I think the compound configuration has distinct advantages (and disadvantages.) From an efficiency standpoint, the TT setup wins hands down. It will make more power every time. It's also less complex, it only has a turbo system and CAC for that.
Where the compound shines is in the power band. You won't make as much power as the TT, but you will make more torque, and you will have a broader, flatter torque/power curve. It's not inherently better/worse, it depends on how you use it. For example a 1400hp RB26DETT car will run slower ET's than a compound boosted 1100hp 5.4 GT500 that's compound boosted. The answer lies in the power curves. The RB doesn't see much power until higher RPM, and peaks way out near 6-7k, whereas the GT500 has one big fat curve. It may not make as much power, but the net power may be greater. I also like the way the SC and TC can compliment one another. You'll often see import guys debating between twins and a big single, trying to balance the benefits of where the power is made and how much. With compound you can run a larger single and get a healthy mix of both. Another side effect of this is launch control. When you still have the SC for compound, it isn't as necessary to go auto with a transbrake to spool up the turbo. Granted a well set up TT with a transbrake is tough to beat, hbut aving a well mannered street friendly manual is a nice thing to have for cars that don't live at the track.
In the end I don't think it's as useless as everyone makes it out to be. Just like anything else, you have to do your homework and set it up right. Personally I'm tempted to go compound versus going TS. The main concern I have is mounting location of a single, but that's a topic for another time.
Where the compound shines is in the power band. You won't make as much power as the TT, but you will make more torque, and you will have a broader, flatter torque/power curve. It's not inherently better/worse, it depends on how you use it. For example a 1400hp RB26DETT car will run slower ET's than a compound boosted 1100hp 5.4 GT500 that's compound boosted. The answer lies in the power curves. The RB doesn't see much power until higher RPM, and peaks way out near 6-7k, whereas the GT500 has one big fat curve. It may not make as much power, but the net power may be greater. I also like the way the SC and TC can compliment one another. You'll often see import guys debating between twins and a big single, trying to balance the benefits of where the power is made and how much. With compound you can run a larger single and get a healthy mix of both. Another side effect of this is launch control. When you still have the SC for compound, it isn't as necessary to go auto with a transbrake to spool up the turbo. Granted a well set up TT with a transbrake is tough to beat, hbut aving a well mannered street friendly manual is a nice thing to have for cars that don't live at the track.
In the end I don't think it's as useless as everyone makes it out to be. Just like anything else, you have to do your homework and set it up right. Personally I'm tempted to go compound versus going TS. The main concern I have is mounting location of a single, but that's a topic for another time.
I ran into a guy at a show few weeks ago who had it . He had stock blower with hellions twin turbo kit and upgraded 67 mm turbos I believe and billet impellers . Said made 1096 rwhp. He said it's a beast on street because the blower helps out hole then the turbos kick in and fly . He's supposed come round one day wen we are racing and I'll get to c how it actually does .
Just the one example I had off the top of my head. Bought a couple magazines a few weeks back and those were the cover stories. Don't remember what tuner magazine the RB was in, but I know the compound boosted GT500 was in MM&FF. Just comparing power/torque curves, not so much the engine platforms, though I do admit the displacement and stroke/bore ratio play a role in shaping those curves.
GoatSlayer
Banned
Why run air that is already cool(from turbo A/A intercooler) through the Heaton and heat it up again? I mean it kinda defeats the purpuse.
I WANTED To try to run sometime in the far...far future Twins, E85 and a KB 2.2L But Somebody quickly shot that idea down. Haha. Oh welllll.
But I honestly think Compound is badass. I just guess the inefficiency is the major drawback.
But I honestly think Compound is badass. I just guess the inefficiency is the major drawback.
Compound Boost - What you should know.
Compound Boost Facts PDF Print E-mail
Written by HellionCraig
Wednesday, 01 April 2009 15:58
Because of the overwhelming popularity of the compound boost setup, and the many questions that surround it, we at Hellion Power Systems have decided to include a Compound Boost section to specifically answer the most common questions we receive and to also get some facts out in the open about the systems and their performance.
FAQ:
Q: Can I use the System WITHOUT the Supercharger?
A: Absolutely. This kit will attach to a stock 96-98 or 99 & 01 Cobra intake just like our other 96-04 Cobra single turbo kit, or will attach to a sheet-metal intake on GT500's. The Supercharger is simply an option for those who want to try the Compound Boost setup .But no, the supercharger is NOT a requirement.
Q: Will I Make More Power With a Smaller Pulley/More Boost?
A: The short answer is no, not necessarily. In the compound boost setup, the turbos are the more efficient power adder, and because of this, we want to try and utilize the power they can make as best we can. By turning the supercharger faster than it's factory setting of 8-10 psi, the compounding ratio is increased, and therefor total boost levels will increase at a more pronounced rate. This may limit the amount of boost that we can run from the turbochargers, which may limit top-end power. However, by turning the supercharger faster, it is possible to create more low-end power and torque, at the expense of top end power efficiency.
Q: Can I use a Kenne Bell or Whipple Supercharger with the Turbos?
A: Yes. Keep in mind though, there are some precautions to take with the larger, twin screw superchargers. The amount of air that a twin screw supercharger would flow through it, as well as the manner in which the twin screw superchargers compress air will lead to much, much higher total boost levels versus a roots style supercharger. This is an important factor to keep in mind when tuning the car for maximum power. Turn the supercharger slower with a larger pulley, and any potential issues should be resolved.
Q: Is the Supercharger a Restriction?
A: No, not at all. The supercharger is not a stagnant, solid piece that air has to travel around or through. Rather, the supercharger is simply doing what it does, and that's take air and essentially make it smaller. The supercharger will simply take the air that has been compressed by the turbochargers and further compress it as it travels into the engine. In fact, the turbochargers will basically help to improve the overall efficiency of the supercharger. Roots and screw-type superchargers experience a condition known as "back flow." Back flow refers to air that doesn't make it into the engine when it is compressed, and actually comes back up into the intake tract. This air is heated, and is the cause of the loud noise heard from positive displacement superchargers. When the turbos are added in conjunction with the supercharger, they help to keep the airflow directional, minimizing the amount and effect of the back flow. Also, it's important to remember that boost itself is actually a measure of restriction, so to speak. The number that we read as "boost" is positive manifold pressure, or the byproduct of the engine only being able to flow a certain amount of air through it at any given time. The air that is being forced into the engine will eventually overcome the amount of air that the engine can ingest during every revolution, and the resulting "back up" of air is positive manifold pressure, or boost. Therefore, by using the supercharger to create a higher level of pressure, it cannot be viewed as a restriction.
Q: How Come the Turbos Alone Will Make More Peak Power at the Same Boost Level Then?
A: As previously stated, the turbochargers are the more efficient power adder (supercharger vs. turbo). In the compound setups, the turbo boost level is limited because the air will be compressed again by the supercharger. Therefor, 20psi of compounded boost will only be about 8 psi from the turbos and 8-9 psi from the supercharger. This means that you will see peak power characteristics that reflect the amount of turbo boost present, with low-end power characteristics of a supercharger. The total boost number is somewhat irrelevant. If we use the turbos only to create 20psi, they are in a more efficient airflow range, but will lack the low-end power of the supercharger. Also, the turbo combinations with lack the mechanical losses, however minimal they may be, which will lead to slightly higher peak power numbers.
Q: What are the Real Benefits of the Compound Boost Setup?
A: The real world benefit of a compound boost setup is average power and driveability. With the compound setup, you can still have the instant boost and low-end grunt of a supercharger, but the addition of the turbochargers will allow for a much more efficient and powerful top-end. This is referred to as "power under the curve." The average amount of power that we are able to produce with the compound systems will provide better driveability while still producing hair-raising amounts of power. Here's a quick example of how to think about it:
Let's say that we have a car that makes 1,000 hp peak, but only makes 500 - 1,000 hp for around 3,000 rpm. Now, we have another car that makes 900 hp peak, but makes 500-900 hp for 5,000 rpm. If we use a linear progression of power to calculate the average power through 5,000 RPM, the second car in question would have an average power output of about 700 hp through 5,000 rpm, whereas the first car mentioned would only have an average output of about 550 - 600 hp through 5,000 rpm. Using this equation, the first car in question has a higher peak power output, however the second car will most likely out-accelerate it due to the fact that it makes more average power over the same RPM range.
Last Updated on Monday, 24 August 2009 19:04
Taken from another thread. I stand corrected. Doing a little research has changed my mind...
Compound Boost Facts PDF Print E-mail
Written by HellionCraig
Wednesday, 01 April 2009 15:58
Because of the overwhelming popularity of the compound boost setup, and the many questions that surround it, we at Hellion Power Systems have decided to include a Compound Boost section to specifically answer the most common questions we receive and to also get some facts out in the open about the systems and their performance.
FAQ:
Q: Can I use the System WITHOUT the Supercharger?
A: Absolutely. This kit will attach to a stock 96-98 or 99 & 01 Cobra intake just like our other 96-04 Cobra single turbo kit, or will attach to a sheet-metal intake on GT500's. The Supercharger is simply an option for those who want to try the Compound Boost setup .But no, the supercharger is NOT a requirement.
Q: Will I Make More Power With a Smaller Pulley/More Boost?
A: The short answer is no, not necessarily. In the compound boost setup, the turbos are the more efficient power adder, and because of this, we want to try and utilize the power they can make as best we can. By turning the supercharger faster than it's factory setting of 8-10 psi, the compounding ratio is increased, and therefor total boost levels will increase at a more pronounced rate. This may limit the amount of boost that we can run from the turbochargers, which may limit top-end power. However, by turning the supercharger faster, it is possible to create more low-end power and torque, at the expense of top end power efficiency.
Q: Can I use a Kenne Bell or Whipple Supercharger with the Turbos?
A: Yes. Keep in mind though, there are some precautions to take with the larger, twin screw superchargers. The amount of air that a twin screw supercharger would flow through it, as well as the manner in which the twin screw superchargers compress air will lead to much, much higher total boost levels versus a roots style supercharger. This is an important factor to keep in mind when tuning the car for maximum power. Turn the supercharger slower with a larger pulley, and any potential issues should be resolved.
Q: Is the Supercharger a Restriction?
A: No, not at all. The supercharger is not a stagnant, solid piece that air has to travel around or through. Rather, the supercharger is simply doing what it does, and that's take air and essentially make it smaller. The supercharger will simply take the air that has been compressed by the turbochargers and further compress it as it travels into the engine. In fact, the turbochargers will basically help to improve the overall efficiency of the supercharger. Roots and screw-type superchargers experience a condition known as "back flow." Back flow refers to air that doesn't make it into the engine when it is compressed, and actually comes back up into the intake tract. This air is heated, and is the cause of the loud noise heard from positive displacement superchargers. When the turbos are added in conjunction with the supercharger, they help to keep the airflow directional, minimizing the amount and effect of the back flow. Also, it's important to remember that boost itself is actually a measure of restriction, so to speak. The number that we read as "boost" is positive manifold pressure, or the byproduct of the engine only being able to flow a certain amount of air through it at any given time. The air that is being forced into the engine will eventually overcome the amount of air that the engine can ingest during every revolution, and the resulting "back up" of air is positive manifold pressure, or boost. Therefore, by using the supercharger to create a higher level of pressure, it cannot be viewed as a restriction.
Q: How Come the Turbos Alone Will Make More Peak Power at the Same Boost Level Then?
A: As previously stated, the turbochargers are the more efficient power adder (supercharger vs. turbo). In the compound setups, the turbo boost level is limited because the air will be compressed again by the supercharger. Therefor, 20psi of compounded boost will only be about 8 psi from the turbos and 8-9 psi from the supercharger. This means that you will see peak power characteristics that reflect the amount of turbo boost present, with low-end power characteristics of a supercharger. The total boost number is somewhat irrelevant. If we use the turbos only to create 20psi, they are in a more efficient airflow range, but will lack the low-end power of the supercharger. Also, the turbo combinations with lack the mechanical losses, however minimal they may be, which will lead to slightly higher peak power numbers.
Q: What are the Real Benefits of the Compound Boost Setup?
A: The real world benefit of a compound boost setup is average power and driveability. With the compound setup, you can still have the instant boost and low-end grunt of a supercharger, but the addition of the turbochargers will allow for a much more efficient and powerful top-end. This is referred to as "power under the curve." The average amount of power that we are able to produce with the compound systems will provide better driveability while still producing hair-raising amounts of power. Here's a quick example of how to think about it:
Let's say that we have a car that makes 1,000 hp peak, but only makes 500 - 1,000 hp for around 3,000 rpm. Now, we have another car that makes 900 hp peak, but makes 500-900 hp for 5,000 rpm. If we use a linear progression of power to calculate the average power through 5,000 RPM, the second car in question would have an average power output of about 700 hp through 5,000 rpm, whereas the first car mentioned would only have an average output of about 550 - 600 hp through 5,000 rpm. Using this equation, the first car in question has a higher peak power output, however the second car will most likely out-accelerate it due to the fact that it makes more average power over the same RPM range.
Last Updated on Monday, 24 August 2009 19:04
Taken from another thread. I stand corrected. Doing a little research has changed my mind...
- Status
Users who are viewing this thread
