cobra irs vs solid axle

[WP64]

I was reminded of this fact today, the S197 Mustang with it's solid rear axle beat the Porsche GT3 and BMW M3 for the 2nd time in three years in the Grand Am Koni series - both the Overall Champion AND the Manufacturers Champion! And the Mustangs that beat the Porsche's and BMW's with their IRS didn't have a Watts link or torque arm rear suspensions, they're using the std. S197 pan hard 3-link set-up.

 

[gcassidy]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a proper 3 link setup. They're light, simple and easy to work around.

Why don't I have an S197 to track yet?!!!! :bash:

 

[ac427cobra]

I was reminded of this fact today, the S197 Mustang with it's solid rear axle beat the Porsche GT3 and BMW M3 for the 2nd time in three years in the Grand Am Koni series - both the Overall Champion AND the Manufacturers Champion! And the Mustangs that beat the Porsche's and BMW's with their IRS didn't have a Watts link or torque arm rear suspensions, they're using the std. S197 pan hard 3-link set-up.

I think there is a bit more to the car, teams, rules and series overall than why an SRA equipped Mustang bested Porsche and BMW. ;-)

 

[racer]

Nothing wrong with an IRS in a track car if you can make it work with the help of a few mods. My feeling is if you want to make it a full race car a full on straight axle set-up will work better.
I would hate to have to run my straight axle set up on a DD, it's like sitting on a jack hammer.

Just my opinion tho.

 

[racebronco2]

I would hate to have to run my straight axle set up on a DD, it's like sitting on a jack hammer.
Just my opinion tho.

Besides it would make your beer fizz.oke:

 

[Venom '01]

I believe the reason the cobras have IRS is because they were made with more auto X / handling in mind. It all depends on what you want. I have the IRS accelerating in a straight line, the wheel hop makes m entire first gear pointless (my tires are low which also doesn't help). Personally I like the IRS, its just seems like its part of being a cobra

 

[racer]

Besides it would make your beer fizz.oke:

Very true. Carlos, are there any track days planned for the end of January? It's almost time to start missings Apex's again :beer:

 

[WP64]

I think there is a bit more to the car, teams, rules and series overall than why an SRA equipped Mustang bested Porsche and BMW. ;-)

I agree, it's not all about the SRA but it's an interesting side note and I'm sure there will be even more restriction placed on the Mustang fielding teams next year to appease the Porsche and BMW loosers :whine:

F*** the Euro Trash anyway, the Camaro will be running against the Mustang next year in GS and whipping some BowTie butt is all I really care about in that series.

 

[David Hester]

cobras have IRS is because they were made with more auto X / handling in mind
Ummm or marketing. Corvette has had IRS for decades.
The fact that Mustang only had it (or thought they needed it) for 2 years of 45 says something...

 

[racebronco2]

Very true. Carlos, are there any track days planned for the end of January? It's almost time to start missings Apex's again :beer:

I should have the car running by then. I haven't looked yet but most of the nasa, speedventures and speedtrial events i do attend.

Here are a couple from speedventures
January 10, 2009 Streets of Willow Full Course, Bowl and Blowpass (CW)
January 11, 2009 Full Course with Bowl and Blowpass (CCW)

January 24, 2009 Buttonwillow Raceway Race #13 (CW)

February 7, 2009 Willow Springs Road Course "Big Willow" Full Course (CW)
February 8, 2009 Full Course (CW)

February 20, 2009 Streets of Willow Full Course with Bowl and Blowpass (CW)

 

[wheelhopper]

You are so lucky. Us Mid Atlantic boys are looking at March before we can do any track time. You already have six events under your belt by then.

 

[Venom '01]

cobras have IRS is because they were made with more auto X / handling in mind
Ummm or marketing. Corvette has had IRS for decades.
The fact that Mustang only had it (or thought they needed it) for 2 years of 45 says something...

First of all cobra had IRS for 3 or 4 years. second of all the corvettes have always been know for being great on the track and you said they have IRS. If this is true then wouldnt IRS have something to do with handling. ANd third, mustangs never were know for being track cars. THats why they never put a IRS in them except for the cobras.

 

[BlackBolt9]

First of all cobra had IRS for 3 or 4 years. second of all the corvettes have always been know for being great on the track and you said they have IRS. If this is true then wouldnt IRS have something to do with handling. ANd third, mustangs never were know for being track cars. THats why they never put a IRS in them except for the cobras.

The Mustang IRS is a compromise though, which means it isn't necessarily better on the track. It definitely makes a difference on rough surfaces but how rough are most tracks??? The Corvette IRS isn't as much of a compromise because it was designed into the car from the start which means there were a lot less packaging constraints to work around.

As to some other arguements...

As far as the Koni cars go, the reason the Mustangs won the championship is because they were more consistant throughout the season. BMW was actually in the lead going into the last race. It's a spec series and so they make each car have compromises to make them all equally competitive. Saying the Mustang is faster because of it's SRA is assinine. All three cars aren't even on the same size tires, so comparing how much traction they have is moot, along with the fact that they are allowed different weights.

I have to be frank and say this thread is so full of bullshit it's getting pretty close to being worthless. Don't get me wrong there are a few guys in here giving good information from experience but the majority seem to really have no idea what they are talking about or how to compare the two suspensions. JMO FWIW

 

[wheelhopper]

op:

 

[racer]

I should have the car running by then. I haven't looked yet but most of the nasa, speedventures and speedtrial events i do attend.

Thanks Carlos, I hope to make one in early Jan as I am going to be a Dad again on Jan 19th.
If I cant test before then I'll see you at Cal Speedway in March. I need to run the car back thru tech and get my log book squared away.

Again, sorry to hear about you motor.

 

[racer]

I have to be frank and say this thread is so full of bullshit it's getting pretty close to being worthless. Don't get me wrong there are a few guys in here giving good information from experience but the majority seem to really have no idea what they are talking about or how to compare the two suspensions. JMO FWIW[/QUOTE]


I have to admit, the man is right.

 

[gcassidy]

That's the internet for you.
But if you can know who to listen to, you can wade through all the crap and find a few gems.

 

[BlackStripes]

You are so lucky. Us Mid Atlantic boys are looking at March before we can do any track time. You already have six events under your belt by then.

Feb 20-22 :rolling:

About the IRS, i have to say that it took me about about 3 or 4 track weekends in the same track and 2 different alignments to be as fast with the IRS than i was with the straight axle. The car behaves totally different, the turn in is so much better with the IRS and the track out.. .well... you need to be careful I have to say that you can be faster with the IRS or with a well done straight axle depending on the track. VIR south i am definitely faster with the IRS, i take the upper S's a LOT faster with the IRS than the straight axle, I think because i can go over the curbing with more confidence.

my $0.02

 

[moridin2004]

I think there is a bit more to the car, teams, rules and series overall than why an SRA equipped Mustang bested Porsche and BMW. ;-)

Exactly. For Mazda to beat a Porsche in GA (very similar to a street car by the way), they need a chassis encroaching on a tube frame, and a 3 rotor.

 

[NJ 03Mach1]

For the racing I do, I love the IRS... But then again I race on the street and not a smooth track. Compared to when I had a solid, I like the IRS much better. IMO it feels more stable at high speed, taking uneven turns is a breeze and rides smoother as a DD.

It really comes down to what YOU want...