catch can, separator, or breathers?

[DoubleClutch]

Greetings svtp community!
I recently, 2 days ago purchased a new 14 gt m6 with the 3.73s and brembos, im a mustang guy again!
Although im super horny for more, I think im going to wait a few months before I start throwing parts on the car.
One thing I am interested in immediately is pcv oil separating.
I know jlt and numerous other companies make catch cans amd separators, but I found this breather kit on the bbr website.
http://www.blowbyracing.com/20mugtbobbrb.html
Does anyone have any experience or feed back with this type of method for removing oil from the intake. Any pros and cons over the jlt systems?

 

[Voltwings]

To avoid typing it all over again, this is my post from this same topic over on Mustang evolution. I just copied and pasted the whole thing, you can pick out the parts that pertain to you.


Oh my God this was painful to read... a lot of misinformation going on in here. I only skim read the past 4 pages, but I have a LOT of experience with crankcases in boosted applications and dealing with crankcase pressure and ventilation, so im going to try to clear a few things up...

You cannot run a breather on the passenger side and leave the driver side hooked to the intake, it will cause a vacuum leak. The crankcase is not smart, it does not know which way the airflow is designed to go through it, the only reason the air flows through the crankcase the way it does is because of the way it is routed. Your passenger side is hooked to your intake manifold, which will see significantly higher vacuum than the driver side hooked to your CAI. This delta is the reason air flows through the crankcase as it does, if you only vent the passenger side, you now have a stronger vacuum on the driver side and will have a vacuum leak through the crankcase. This has been confirmed on cars I have tuned, the idle trims and AFR's ARE effected, and will only get worse as more throttle is applied.


Secondly, breathers are not good, they're just not. The engine is designed to operate with a vacuum for the sake of motor health, engine seals, and just overall longevity. I have tuned and run cars with massive catch can breathers, and they stink, the gunk and crap and fumes just continue to pile up. Also, breather cans act as "pits" so to speak that just collect moisture and crap. Moisture will condense in the can, and mix with the oil and fuel vapors that are flowing through the can and create a milky residue that otherwise wouldn't happen. This situation creates the self fulfilling prophecy of "oh my god, that's what would be in my engine!" when really it only exists because it is exposed to the elements. Think about this as well, if that's what it looks like in your vented can, imagine what it looks like down in your crankcase as well since this is no longer a sealed system... do you want diluted milky oil?


The JLT catch can is useless, its way too short of a path and does not give the oil time enough to fall out of suspension and settle out. A catch can should be mounted further away, like this Bob's kit I have on my car, which allows the oil to fall out of suspension due to the longer lines and reduced airspeed, and settle into the filter media in the bottom of the can.
Bob's 2011+ 5.0 Ultimate Firewall Oil Separator Kit


This way you A. Keep crap out of your intake, B. Allow the engine seals and crankcase to receive the proper amount of vacuum, B. It just looks cleaner in my opinion...


As far as boost is concerned lol breathers are extra useless, there have been applications where left purely VTA to its own devices, crankcase systems have still built as much as 3.5 psi of crankcase pressure... that's more than enough to move some oil. Even the slightest vacuum on the crankcase would prevent positive pressure from building, and that would deter another misconception people have. People believe that since oil is blowing out under pressure, routing that back to their intake will move that same amount of oil into the intake tract. Not exactly, if you prevent the pressure from ever building, the oil is no more inclined to make its way out than it would be during daily driving. Now, catch cans are not perfect, SOME residue may get by and I am not denying that, but its going to be a very small and insignificant amount on a healthy motor. All in all In my experience breathers are nothing short of a cheap and tacky Band-Aid, but to each his own.

 

[DoubleClutch]

Im not boosted, dont plan on being boosted anytime in the near/semi near future, but from what I understand...
Breathers bad, catch cans useless without a long enough line to and from.
Ive read that the majority of the oil comes from the passenger side? The bobs firewall kit is significantly more expensive than others, not that I care but im also wasnt born with a silver spoon in my mouth, I want to make sure my dollars are well spent. The car is brand new, 200 miles on it now. Do I need one for both the passenger and driver sides or is just the passenger side sufficient?

 

[Voltwings]

no, only the passenger side, the air flows in the drivers, out the passenger. The only time CC pressure will flow out of the drivers side is at WOT when there is no pressure differential between the intake manifold and intake. Also, the Golden rule of modding: the cheap man pays twice. Best to just get a good catch can if you're going to bother getting one.

 

[DoubleClutch]

Fair enough, I work at a petrochemical refinery, delta pressure particle venting systems are a part of my life unfortunately, what you're saying makes sense. Thanks for the the feedback.

 

[redline5.0]

My jlt catches oil on my na setup....dam worthless can.

 

[Voltwings]

Catches some, catches all... The Bob's sales pitch worked on me.

 

[by9468840]

Is anyone using the bobs kit with roush tvs? Would love to see some install pics.
Curious gears the third line that comped from the back of the blower is for. Not sure how I can install a bobs firewall kit to my roush tvs 11Gt.

 

[D.T.R]

Does anyone have a picture of their catch can on a TT setup? the space in the engine bay is rather limited so i'm curious to see what people are running and where they're mounting it.

 

[BUILT5LITERTT]

Does anyone have a picture of their catch can on a TT setup? the space in the engine bay is rather limited so i'm curious to see what people are running and where they're mounting it.

I 2nd this.. Ive seen fabbed 5.0's which is his own custom made piece ... Curious to know what venders are acutally selling... Im looking into a peterson one.. I've contacted them so they can make me a custom 08-400-coyote catch can still looking though

 

[truebluedevil02]

I run Breathers on my car with a GT500 PCV valve on the passenger side. I never get oil out of the passenger side, I clean the Drivers side about every 2500 miles otherwise it will start to drip oil on the coil cover. Breathers all the way IMO

 

[beefcake]

we are running mmr's new catch can / breather setup, best of both worlds. looks great and works perfrect

 

[D.T.R]

I 2nd this.. Ive seen fabbed 5.0's which is his own custom made piece ... Curious to know what venders are acutally selling... Im looking into a peterson one.. I've contacted them so they can make me a custom 08-400-coyote catch can still looking though

I run Breathers on my car with a GT500 PCV valve on the passenger side. I never get oil out of the passenger side, I clean the Drivers side about every 2500 miles otherwise it will start to drip oil on the coil cover. Breathers all the way IMO

I am running breathers at the moment, and it appears to be fine... but seems like all of the sudden all these threads about breathers/separators/catch cans ... it seems almost a sin to run a breather lol so it has me wondering.
I believe the aluminator motor already runs a different PCV? we pulled passenger side PCV while i was on the dyno at JPC and the guys said that it was already "opened up" so i was fine.
I'm just curious to see where the heck you mount a catch can with the twins if you haven't relocated your battery lol. I do have already a kit to relocate the battery and put it in the trunk, but i haven't been able to get to it yet lol .

 

[Bullitt 3309]

I am using this one, the "race" version
http://www.mightymousesolutions.com/#!mm-black/ca5m
Both valve covers to the can

 

[sinistr302]

I am using this one, the "race" version
http://www.mightymousesolutions.com/#!mm-black/ca5m
Both valve covers to the can

do u have any engine bay pics of it installed?

 

[5PNTSLW]

Breathers with GT500 valve here, have run it both N/A and boosted, never had an issue with oil spray or dripping in the bay

 

[Aaron@JPCRacing]

We run breather's on just about everything.

In a higher power car you don't want pressure in the crank case. Period.
That's what causes your turbo's to smoke and for cars to blow out seals.

You can always step up to a catch can/breather setup but usually thats more money then people want to spend.
I've installed 100's of breathes on cars and I haven't had any complaints. Alot of people over analyze some of the simpler parts of cars.

 

[D.T.R]

We run breather's on just about everything.

In a higher power car you don't want pressure in the crank case. Period.
That's what causes your turbo's to smoke and for cars to blow out seals.

You can always step up to a catch can/breather setup but usually thats more money then people want to spend.
I've installed 100's of breathes on cars and I haven't had any complaints. Alot of people over analyze some of the simpler parts of cars.

I am following this advice from on lol. I'm keeping my breather filters on there lol

 

[Voltwings]

We run breather's on just about everything.

In a higher power car you don't want pressure in the crank case. Period.
That's what causes your turbo's to smoke and for cars to blow out seals.

You can always step up to a catch can/breather setup but usually thats more money then people want to spend.
I've installed 100's of breathes on cars and I haven't had any complaints. Alot of people over analyze some of the simpler parts of cars.

Not trying to be snarky here, but i feel this is a serious point. Have you measured CC pressure at all to validate that? On my previous (factory boosted) platform people were running into CC pressure issues when switching to larger turbos. VTA'ing the crankcase, basically just leaving it to its own devices, the company doing the test was still able to record ~3.5 psi of crankcase pressure. Also, on my own personal car, going from VTA to pulling a vacuum on the crankcase i was able to drop 400 rpms off my spool. This was a motor built for big power, so it did experience a bit of blow by with the looser ring gap, such is the nature of the beast. However, if the impact was that big on a 2.3L 4 cylinder trying to spool a 35r, i imagine there could be some benefit to a 5.0 trying to spool a larger turbo... at least to some degree.

Now, i dont doubt the 5.0 has a better designed crankcase evacuation system, BUT, my point remains the same. Just because something isnt showing signs of being wrong doesnt mean its right.

That being said ... i'm not running 1000+ whp cars with breathers, sooooooooo, maybe its a moot point haha. Just a valid question i thought i'd bring up. I personally am a fan of having a vacuum on the crankcase.

 

[D.T.R]

a 2.3L should have no problems spooling a 35R lol unless your head doesn't flow worth a fk.