Canton Road Race Oil Pan Installation

[starnsey]

So I've come across a few different ways to install my Canton Road Race pan. I just want to confirm the process before doing it wrong:

1) Put bead of RTV around ENTIRE perimeter of windage tray - somehow place windage tray on engine block and hole in place somehow?
2) Install pickup tube
3) Place OEM gasket beneath windage tray (any RTV at this step?)
4) Oil pan goes beneath OEM gasket, any RTV here?
5) Torque bolts or nuts to 20 ft-lbs starting from center most bolts moving towards front and rear?

 

[MalcolmV8]

Don't have a Canton so don't know but surely the windage tray bolts in? I can't imagine a windage tray that's just laying in there held by a bead of silicon?

As for OEM gasket, you don't need RTV on it. It seals very well and does not leak. The only spots that have RTV is a couple small dabs towards the front of the motor where the timing cover meets the block and on the rear where I believe it's the rear main seal plate meets the block. You should dab those four spots prior to installing the gasket and oil pan.

 

[starnsey]

Don't have a Canton so don't know but surely the windage tray bolts in? I can't imagine a windage tray that's just laying in there held by a bead of silicon?

As for OEM gasket, you don't need RTV on it. It seals very well and does not leak. The only spots that have RTV is a couple small dabs towards the front of the motor where the timing cover meets the block and on the rear where I believe it's the rear main seal plate meets the block. You should dab those four spots prior to installing the gasket and oil pan.

I only mean it's held in place by the RTV temporarily while you lift the pan and gasket into place. It gets sandwiched with the other components as well and is bolted in with the gasket and pan.

 

[Quick Strike]

I think he is talking about the Canton tray. It is only held in place by the pan bolts (not bolted to the mains). Pan studs are very helpful for this installation. You want to make sure to test fit the pick-up and tray before installing as you may need to clearance the tray for the pick-up. Then you want to make sure your pick up depth is no closer then 1/4" to the the pan and no more then 3/8". You also need to remove the flashing from the pick up. The index protrusions on the pan gasket for the timing cover need to be ground flat since the tray does not have these index holes. This is all much easier with the engine out of the car and up-side-down. I included a few pictures of mine below for reference.

 

[starnsey]

I think he is talking about the Canton tray. It is only held in place by the pan bolts (not bolted to the mains). Pan studs are very helpful for this installation. You want to make sure to test fit the pick-up and tray before installing as you may need to clearance the tray for the pick-up. Then you want to make sure your pick up depth is no closer then 1/4" to the the pan and no more then 3/8". You also need to remove the flashing from the pick up. The index protrusions on the pan gasket for the timing cover need to be ground flat since the tray does not have these index holes. This is all much easier with the engine out of the car and up-side-down. I included a few pictures of mine below for reference.

View attachment 35970

View attachment 35971

Yeah, unfortunately I couldn't install the pan outside of the car, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to install the engine back in the car since I installed it with tranny and long tubes attached. Barely had enough room:

I know for a fact the pickup tube doesn't hit the bottom of the pan as I mocked it up when the engine was on the engine stand. But I am not certain if it is within 1/4" to 3/8" from the bottom. How do I check this? And what flashing are you referring to? Also, I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say index protrusions on the gasket for the timing cover. I didn't notice anything special on the gasket.

And yes, I was realizing after the fact that installing the studs that came with the windage tray may make it easier to install than the bolts I was trying to use.

With all that said, what did you, personally, have to modify to make your setup work? And where did you use RTV and not use RTV?

 

[Tabres]

I have the Canton R/R pan and windage-tray on my engine. I've tried the RTV route on the windage-tray before with the stock gasket between the tray and pan and all I ever had was leaks no matter what I did.

The last time around I wound up using two stock oil-pan gaskets, one between the block and windage-tray and one between the windage-tray and pan with no RTV. Worked perfect. Zero leaks and everything went together a lot easier. Personally, I'll never mess around with RTV on that again (the only place it does have it is where the rear-main cover and the timing cover meet the block).

 

[Quick Strike]

How do I check this? And what flashing are you referring to? Also, I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say index protrusions on the gasket for the timing cover. I didn't notice anything special on the gasket.

With all that said, what did you, personally, have to modify to make your setup work? And where did you use RTV and not use RTV?

I checked the depth with my sons play-dough. I put it on the tube then fit the pan. It took spacing the bracket and bending the tube in a vice.

The tube has oil diverters welded to it for use in conjunction with the stock tray. These will be in the way of the new tray. I used a cut off wheel in my Mikita to take care of them.

Feel the front of the gasket. There were two raised round areas in the front that fit into the timing cover. These will now be against the tray and will cause a leak if not removed.

I used RTV around the entire block under the tray and a single gasket under the tray. It has not leaked in the four years since the install. It might be better to use two gaskets if installing from underneath. You can let it set up and install easily with the engine out and upside-down: not so underneath.

 

[starnsey]

I have the Canton R/R pan and windage-tray on my engine. I've tried the RTV route on the windage-tray before with the stock gasket between the tray and pan and all I ever had was leaks no matter what I did.

The last time around I wound up using two stock oil-pan gaskets, one between the block and windage-tray and one between the windage-tray and pan with no RTV. Worked perfect. Zero leaks and everything went together a lot easier. Personally, I'll never mess around with RTV on that again (the only place it does have it is where the rear-main cover and the timing cover meet the block).

Did you have to do all the modifications that Quick Strike listed below? I didn't realize it would require so much shit.

I checked the depth with my sons play-dough. I put it on the tube then fit the pan. It took spacing the bracket and bending the tube in a vice.

The tube has oil diverters welded to it for use in conjunction with the stock tray. These will be in the way of the new tray. I used a cut off wheel in my Mikita to take care of them.

Feel the front of the gasket. There were two raised round areas in the front that fit into the timing cover. These will now be against the tray and will cause a leak if not removed.

I used RTV around the entire block under the tray and a single gasket under the tray. It has not leaked in the four years since the install. It might be better to use two gaskets if installing from underneath. You can let it set up and install easily with the engine out and upside-down: not so underneath.

I didn't notice any interference at all between the tray and the oil pickup tube when I mocked them up so I'm still unsure of where the "oil diverters" are.

I get what you're saying about the gasket now. I didn't realize this setup would require so many changes to make work. May just go back to the stock pan but have no idea where I could find one quickly.

The car had the MMR pan on it when I bought it but the damn thing hung so low that it would be the first thing to get ripped off if I were to straddle something in the road. That's why I went for the Canton. Did you have to bend the tube AWAY from the bottom of the pan or TOWARDS the bottom of the pan?

EDIT: Guessing you're talking about this giant plate in the picture below?

My pickup tube definitely doesn't have that. I know the oil pump is aftermarket (either MMR or FRPP...don't remember what the previous owner said) so maybe all the modifications have already been done.

 

[Quick Strike]

Maybe the tube already had the extra stuff removed to work with the mmr pan. I had to move mine closer to the bottom of the pan.

 

[starnsey]

Maybe the tube already had the extra stuff removed to work with the mmr pan. I had to move mine closer to the bottom of the pan.

That's what I'm hoping. I'm going to take some measurements to see if I can come up with something so I don't have to use the playdough method.

This is from MMR's website in regards to their pick up tube spacer:

"Oil Pump Pick-up Tube Spacer
This spacer replaces the factory steel unit with a lightweight, 6061 CNC Machined Aluminum piece. This part weighs 75% of the original part it replaces and is available in STD or +.250 lengths for those with Canton, MMR or Moroso oil pans , this allows the pick- up to stay in the oil under the hardest of cornering and acceleration prevent pump cavitation and engine damage! Fits all 4.6, 5.4 and Coyote 5.0 1993-2015"

So I'm thinking if the previous owner used the MMR pan, he would have already had to use the pickup tube spacer since it says its for the Big Three aftermarket company pans. I'll verify with measurements and grab two gaskets just in case I decide to try that route. Sounds like I'll still have to sand down the little nubs on the gasket for the windage tray though.

 

[starnsey]

Also, is Fel-Pro sufficient for a gasket brand? I don't really have time to wait for a gasket to ship.

 

[Quick Strike]

I know Fel-Pro makes a good head gasket for us, but I don't know about their pan gasket. I would want to be sure with the amount of pan leaks described with the Canton pan over the years. There was no rush with mine so one big order for everything needed was placed with Toulany (sp) Ford at 10% over cost. Now it is someone else that provided the same discount.

 

[starnsey]

I know Fel-Pro makes a good head gasket for us, but I don't know about their pan gasket. I would want to be sure with the amount of pan leaks described with the Canton pan over the years. There was no rush with mine so one big order for everything needed was placed with Toulany (sp) Ford at 10% over cost. Now it is someone else that provided the same discount.

Welp, I guess we'll find out!

 

[MalcolmV8]

Toulany (sp) Ford at 10% over cost. Now it is someone else that provided the same discount.

Tasca Ford
http://www.tascaparts.com/
I usually ask for Steve. He knows our cars and what parts you want like the back of his hand.

 

[starnsey]

Here's another idea: What would happen if I installed the windage tray using black RTV and fully bolted it down while the RTV cures. Then, after it has cured and more likely to stick to the block, I remove the nuts from the studs and install the gasket and oil pan at a later time.

Would this work? Or is the windage tray sheet metal too flimsy to properly create a seal by torquing only it down with mounting hardware?

 

[Quick Strike]

Could you bolt the pan under the tray without the gasket while it sets up? I think the pan has more rigidity then the tray does.

 

[starnsey]

Well I guess the primary trick is to use the provided studs and nuts. I decided to just follow the Canton instructions which are to apply RTV between tray and block then gasket underneath tray, then oil pan. I had to remove the little nubs from the gasket as stated. Just used a razor blade for that.

I would say there is a near 100% chance of leaking. A) because I just assume it ended up being too easy to not bite me in the ass: RTV held the windage tray up really easily. And B) because the moronic previous owner stripped, to some extent, three of the front bolt holes. They weren't stripped entirely but I could not torque the nuts down to the required 20 ft-lbs on those three. I'm just hoping by some miracle there's enough torque on them in addition to the properly torqued nuts to prevent leakage but I'm not feeling optimistic.

 

[Quick Strike]

Looks to me like you will know pretty soon. You should be able to drill and tap them (or Heli Coil for the same thread) a little bigger before you start it if it is the bolts in the timing cover. Once a little leak starts................ you know what happens.

Good luck - hoping for the best.

 

[SVT_Troy]

you should have fixed those holes while it was out. And correct of I'm wrong but you have the front holes stripped that are located in timing cover? Worst case you replace the timing cover..... Probably the easiest route if you don't have the means to drill and heli-coil the holes yourself.

 

[starnsey]

you should have fixed those holes while it was out. And correct of I'm wrong but you have the front holes stripped that are located in timing cover? Worst case you replace the timing cover..... Probably the easiest route if you don't have the means to drill and heli-coil the holes yourself.

Yeah, I didn't know the holes were stripped until it was too late. The studs went in fine and felt like they had plenty of resistance/grip. It wasn't until I started torquing down the nuts onto them that I realized they weren't reaching 15 ft-lbs or whatever. I held an allen wrench on the stud and torqued down the nut and it just slowly made the stud pull down.

And yes, I realized I could just replace the timing cover. We'll see though what happens when I fire the car up in the next couple of days.