Built engine expense

[Islandcat]

guys,

I am at a crossroads with my car. I was trying to sell it but it don’t look like I am gonna get what I want for it. Therefore, I think I will just keep it. It has 84,000 miles on it and still runs great, but if I keep it I am thinking of building the engine. I was wondering about what the cost would be to build my engine. Is it even cost effective to go this route or just get a built engine?I was looking online and seen Jdm has a 1200 hp kit for the 09. I would definitely add cams to it too. Just wondering how much of an expense it would be to undertake. I tried searching about this but didn’t really come up with anything.

 

[COOL COBRA]

Write the check, build your monster. The sky is the limit on $. I'd think a 5.4 could be built pretty stout for 20k or less, you provide the block & heads.

 

[biminiLX]

I bought a JDM built engine and I'm happy with it.
I kept the stock parts for someone who wants to upgrade:
https://www.svtperformance.com/foru...ngine-trans-rear.1155798/page-2#post-15880119

You'd be surprised what the stock '13-14 cams/TVS can do to an early 5.4.
The key is to be very specific in your goals to spend your money wisely.
How much power?
What type of use--racing, street only, dyno queen?
What mods are done now to the engine?
Is the rest of the car built to handle the power?
-J

 

[Islandcat]

Yea I guess I should have posted my setup. My bad.

2.3 trinity TVs with 2.4 pulley and 72lb injectors
123 mm cai
67 mm tb
Kooks 1 7/8 headers with offroad mid pipe
3.73 gears
Dual fan heat exchanger


Upper control arm is only suspension work I have. Been thinking of getting some Viking adjustable shocks, but never got around to it. Will also port the blower and would like to put a 10 or 15 % lower on it and be done with that. And I will add a boost a pump when I port blower.

If you don’t mind me asking, how much extra did you add to shortblock( oil pump gears, cams, etc? ) and about how much it set you all back?

 

[RBB]

I bought a JDM built 5.8 this winter as well. I took my stock heads up there and had them work those over and fully assemble the long block with their SS cams. OPGs and all timing components were upgraded and microblued, lower intake manifold was ported, and a Fore return fuel system was also purchased. All labor other than the engine assembly was performed by myself and a friend, so was able to save a few bucks there. The only "extras" I added that I don't think are absolutely necessary would be the microblue, lower manifold porting and stainless steel valves. For an iron short block build I think there's not much difference in price between buying a new block vs buying fresh components and having your stock block machined and reassembled. You can always sell your stock block to offset part of the difference as well. Here's an approximate breakdown of what you'll pay.

Short block - $5-10K
Machine work on heads/valve job/long block assembly - $5K
Cams/springs - $2K
Timing component upgrades - $1K
Fuel system - $2K

So add additional labor of $2-3K for removal and installation of the engine, and installation of the fuel system depending on what you're going to do yourself. There are probably a few things I'm leaving out as well that might add up to another $1-2K (fluids, misc hardware, gaskets). I was all in for about $30K and I considered that a middle of the road build. I felt like I did what was necessary to build a reliable engine, but there are definitely some extras I would have added if money was no object....you can spend a hell of a lot more than that if you're so inclined. Don't skimp on the upgraded OPGs and timing components either, you'll regret it.

 

[merkyworks]

As others have said defining your goals or what you want is the first step.

If you stick with using an iron block look at the FRPP M-6009-C54SC4 short blocks, great bang for the buck if it fits what your wanting to do.

 

[RBB]

As others have said defining your goals or what you want is the first step.

If you stick with using an iron block look at the FRPP M-6009-C54SC4 short blocks, great bang for the buck if it fits what your wanting to do.

This is a good point. If your engine didn't blow, then I can't imagine why you'd build unless you wanted to make big power and planned on beating on it regularly. My first post is assuming that this isn't a garage/dyno queen.

 

[COOL COBRA]

I bought a JDM built 5.8 this winter as well. I took my stock heads up there and had them work those over and fully assemble the long block with their SS cams. OPGs and all timing components were upgraded and microblued, lower intake manifold was ported, and a Fore return fuel system was also purchased. All labor other than the engine assembly was performed by myself and a friend, so was able to save a few bucks there. The only "extras" I added that I don't think are absolutely necessary would be the microblue, lower manifold porting and stainless steel valves. For an iron short block build I think there's not much difference in price between buying a new block vs buying fresh components and having your stock block machined and reassembled. You can always sell your stock block to offset part of the difference as well. Here's an approximate breakdown of what you'll pay.

Short block - $5-10K
Machine work on heads/valve job/long block assembly - $5K
Cams/springs - $2K
Timing component upgrades - $1K
Fuel system - $2K

So add additional labor of $2-3K for removal and installation of the engine, and installation of the fuel system depending on what you're going to do yourself. There are probably a few things I'm forgetting as well that might add up to another $1-2K. I was all in for about $30K and I considered that a middle of the road build. I felt like I did what was necessary to build a reliable engine, but there are definitely some extras I would have added if money was no object....you can spend a hell of a lot more than that if you're so inclined. Don't skimp on the upgraded OPGs and timing components either, you'll regret it.

Great info & props for revealing actual cost. Some people are funny about that & won't. I never understood that. Unless they think they paid too much & feel guilty about it.
Sounds like a stout build!

 

[RBB]

Great info & props for revealing actual cost. Some people are funny about that & won't. I never understood that. Unless they think they paid too much & feel guilty about it.
Sounds like a stout build!

I've never understood why some people are so funny about revealing the cost either. We talk about all other mods and prices are thrown around freely, but when it comes to bigger builds, then that changes something? It's no big secret what these things cost....you could call JDM or any other builder up right now and they'd tell you exactly what I just did. I'm here to exchange information with everyone and discuss a hobby that we all enjoy, no point in keeping secrets.

It's a solid build, finally getting on the dyno next Tuesday to finish up the tuning, can't wait for that. Still on the Trinity TVS for now, but I expect some big numbers. A Gen3 Whipple will be coming next fall/winter and then I'm done with this one!

 

[Islandcat]

Yea it is a lot of money to spend if you don't really need it. I just wanted to maximize my current 2.3 and run it on torco mix of 100 octane. I am guessing I could do that with it stock, but just was thinking out loud about freshening it up since it has so many miles.

What about if I ported my blower, added a 10 or 15% lower, and cams. that would be about the end for me as I don't plan on upgrading my blower. Would that be ok on the stock internals with a 100 octane tune? May just go that route if I decide to keep car.

 

[RBB]

Yea it is a lot of money to spend if you don't really need it. I just wanted to maximize my current 2.3 and run it on torco mix of 100 octane. I am guessing I could do that with it stock, but just was thinking out loud about freshening it up since it has so many miles.

What about if I ported my blower, added a 10 or 15% lower, and cams. that would be about the end for me as I don't plan on upgrading my blower. Would that be ok on the stock internals with a 100 octane tune? May just go that route if I decide to keep car.

IMO, you'd definitely be pushing the limits of the stock block with a 100 octane tune, cams and high boost. The rods aren't going to last at that level. I guess you just have to decide whether or not you want to roll the dice and chance a failure. You're in for a rebuild at that point anyways....unfortunately you just never know how extensive the damage is going to be when you have a failure. You might get lucky and it'll just be limited to the short block, or you could damage your heads and other components as well which could cost you several thousands more.

Do you race the car?

 

[moncho]

When the time comes I'll be looking @ a JDM built motor, good folks to work with as well.

Great info RBB!

Cheer

 

[Catmonkey]

It really doesn't make a lot of sense to run the maximum amount of boost for pump gas and not upgrade the rods. Cams and head work add a lot of expense and really aren't needed for a 700-750 hp engine. Not to mention you're beyond the limits of adhesion on almost any street tire. Manley has a fairly cost effective set of H-beams you should consider at a minimum on a rebuild.

 

[moncho]

It really doesn't make a lot of sense to run the maximum amount of boost for pump gas and not upgrade the rods. Cams and head work add a lot of expense and really aren't needed for a 700-750 hp engine. Not to mention you're beyond the limits of adhesion on almost any street tire. Manley has a fairly cost effective set of H-beams you should consider at a minimum on a rebuild.

Seems like the rods are the archillies heel on these iron blocks.

Great info Cat!

Cheers

 

[Islandcat]

Ok this is the type of info I was looking for. So if I would need to upgrade the rods, I might as well just rebuild the whole thing since I got it tore down? What about if I just did cams and ported blower but skip the 10%? Stock rods could handle that?

And I take it to the track every now and then, also go play around on the streets sometimes, but I don’t consider myself a “beater”. I am more of a cruiser and hit some short spirited runs.

 

[RBB]

Ok this is the type of info I was looking for. So if I would need to upgrade the rods, I might as well just rebuild the whole thing since I got it tore down? What about if I just did cams and ported blower but skip the 10%? Stock rods could handle that?

And I take it to the track every now and then, also go play around on the streets sometimes, but I don’t consider myself a “beater”. I am more of a cruiser and hit some short spirited runs.

If you’re tearing it down to do rods you might as well do the pistons too, doesn’t really make sense not to. You can reuse the stock crank.

Have you had the car on a dyno with your current mods? Anything around 750 wheel is pushing the limits of the stock rods and you’re going to pick up around 70HP with JDM SS cams alone on your setup. It’s really just a crapshoot when you get to a certain power level with the stock components. You might be that unlucky guy that pops the engine after a few thousand, or it could go another 30K. Watch your RPMs, that’s the biggest killer of stock rods. Don’t bang the rev limiter or use a two step either, your stock OPGs won’t like it for long.

 

[Islandcat]

It made 645 hp and 676 tq on 93 last year on a mustang dyno. 665 and 693 on 100 torco tune.

I think I will just port the blower and maybe do cams and that will be it. It’s just seems to be hard to find info on built engines on the internet, so I was just thinking maybe go ahead and build it if I tear open the motor. The potential price tag doesn’t seem worth it for my build though. If I did it right my engine would be worth more than the whole car

 

[VNMOUS1]

www.fordmuscle.com/?p=719201

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[RBB]

www.fordmuscle.com/?p=719201

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Good article, BJ. Depending on your level of mechanical expertise and equipment available to you, you can definitely get it done much cheaper by just purchasing a rebuild kit, taking your block in for some machining, and then doing everything else yourself. I had neither the time, nor the know how....getting the engine in and out was about the extent of my capabilities.

 

[Islandcat]

Bj your car sounds exactly how I would want mine to sound. It sounds sweet. Thanks for the article.