Best ways to keep 98 cobra engine cool??
- Thread starter a1yola
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In addition to the Fluidyne we installed (pic above), this shows the lower air dam we put on. Its a piece of trim left over from a '57 Chevy restoration-kinda cool.
Anyway, I just got back from the 3 days at VIR in 100+ temps and heat indices of 110. With those mods, my car was still running close to 240~245 degrees after 8 laps or more. And the oil temps were in the 230~240 range. Lots of cars were being destroyed by the heat there. I think mine would have overheated if we hadn't done these mods.
So just a bigger radiator and a low pressure area is only part of the solution. I think hood extractors and a boxed radiator would have helped, but I'll probably not do that to my car. Doing TT I can just do a couple cool down laps when I need to.
Anyway, I just got back from the 3 days at VIR in 100+ temps and heat indices of 110. With those mods, my car was still running close to 240~245 degrees after 8 laps or more. And the oil temps were in the 230~240 range. Lots of cars were being destroyed by the heat there. I think mine would have overheated if we hadn't done these mods.
So just a bigger radiator and a low pressure area is only part of the solution. I think hood extractors and a boxed radiator would have helped, but I'll probably not do that to my car. Doing TT I can just do a couple cool down laps when I need to.
OK, Sorry.
Interesting, i Just put in a fluidyne earlier this year.
Unrelatedly, I then threw a rod (due to oil pump failure), and wound up going with an an aviator long block.
1) I noted a ~65# weight gain, but am not sure if the first, lighter weight was with the old, stock radiator, or the ?heavier? Fluidyne.
---till now, i had figured it was all NVH bulk, built into the aviator block.
---sounds like radiator and ?extra? water, may have been partially responsible for the weight gain.
2) saturday, mid june, i was seeing 240 degrees, in race conditions, at Road Atlanta.
DESPITE the fluidyne, pure water, and one bottle water-wetter.
~95 ambient?
---other puzzle pieces include:
A)Radiator not yet boxed in,
B)no supplemental oil cooler,
C)hood vent is too far forwards to do much good (BARELY aft of radiator)
D)No air dam underneath radiator
E)NO thermostat. There is a flow-restricting washer, which restricts flow - this seemed to work o.k. In May and early June (different track, different ambient), as temps were usually 180-200.
3) Sunday, we made an small air dam from a rubber made kitchen trashcan. It wound up being JUST as wide as radiator, and extended about 4" below bottom of radiator support.
Same conditions as Saturday, and I swear it made almost 20 degrees difference.
4a) now that I have a cobra r nose, I wonder if that will hurt or help radiator air flow
4b) wondering if I should extend the air dam? In breadth?, in depth?, in both?
4c) should I go back to a traditional thermostat? What degree?
4d) would a second bottle water-wetter help?
Unrelatedly, I then threw a rod (due to oil pump failure), and wound up going with an an aviator long block.
1) I noted a ~65# weight gain, but am not sure if the first, lighter weight was with the old, stock radiator, or the ?heavier? Fluidyne.
---till now, i had figured it was all NVH bulk, built into the aviator block.
---sounds like radiator and ?extra? water, may have been partially responsible for the weight gain.
2) saturday, mid june, i was seeing 240 degrees, in race conditions, at Road Atlanta.
DESPITE the fluidyne, pure water, and one bottle water-wetter.
~95 ambient?
---other puzzle pieces include:
A)Radiator not yet boxed in,
B)no supplemental oil cooler,
C)hood vent is too far forwards to do much good (BARELY aft of radiator)
D)No air dam underneath radiator
E)NO thermostat. There is a flow-restricting washer, which restricts flow - this seemed to work o.k. In May and early June (different track, different ambient), as temps were usually 180-200.
3) Sunday, we made an small air dam from a rubber made kitchen trashcan. It wound up being JUST as wide as radiator, and extended about 4" below bottom of radiator support.
Same conditions as Saturday, and I swear it made almost 20 degrees difference.
4a) now that I have a cobra r nose, I wonder if that will hurt or help radiator air flow
4b) wondering if I should extend the air dam? In breadth?, in depth?, in both?
4c) should I go back to a traditional thermostat? What degree?
4d) would a second bottle water-wetter help?
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Thanks for all the replies! I recently nnoticed that my stock air dam wasn't installed (I think I pulled it off a while back) so I re-installed it. I dont really want to change my radiator just yet, so I'm hoping that my stock air dam being in plce will help me some. I may also just make a new, bigger air dam.
For those that made custom air dams, how did you mount them? The stock air dam is installed onto the bottom of the radiator. After looking at home depot for the gardening trim that a lot of people recommended to me, I noticed that it'd be flat, instead of "L" shaped like the stock piece. Could I just install it to the front of the radiator support or would I need to make some kind of bracket to allow it to mount to the bottom?
Also, after going under the car and looking behind my front bumper I noticed that the radiator is already somewhat boxed in. There are plastic pieces on each side of the radiator that box it in with the front bumper. How efficient are these stock plastic pieces? Can I use the shape of these as templates to make an aluminum box? How are you guys mounting the aluminum pieces to the radiator to box it in? Thanks!
For those that made custom air dams, how did you mount them? The stock air dam is installed onto the bottom of the radiator. After looking at home depot for the gardening trim that a lot of people recommended to me, I noticed that it'd be flat, instead of "L" shaped like the stock piece. Could I just install it to the front of the radiator support or would I need to make some kind of bracket to allow it to mount to the bottom?
Also, after going under the car and looking behind my front bumper I noticed that the radiator is already somewhat boxed in. There are plastic pieces on each side of the radiator that box it in with the front bumper. How efficient are these stock plastic pieces? Can I use the shape of these as templates to make an aluminum box? How are you guys mounting the aluminum pieces to the radiator to box it in? Thanks!
The goal is behind radiator air pressure reduction, not under hood temp reduction. Sorry to disagree but you were so close. The actual under hood temps make almost no difference. The air pressure difference is the sole mover of air through the radiator. Anything you can do to get more pressure in front, combined with less pressure in back will dictate more air goes through the radiator and that ultimately is the task at hand.
The mounting method I used. Please note that this unit is trimmed almost two inches too short.
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Jimmy, there's no sponsor decals on it. That's a perfect place for an RP sticker!
When I put the new deeper version of the air dam on and the Tiger Racing hood I will be sure and remedy that situation.
Though I did put one in each quarter window shortly after getting this awesome job!:rockon::beer:
I'm going to bring this thread back to life...
I plan to move forward with a cooling mod but want to know which direction I should take.
1. Would boxing in the radiator be more efficient than installing a deeper air dam (without boxing in the sides of the radiator)?
2. If I do box in my radiator, would it be best to box in the lower part as well (radiator support to front bumper cover) or would it be better to box in the sides of the radiator and make a deeper air dam (leaving the bottom of the radiator "open")?
3. Does boxing in the radiator consist of blocking off the top of the radiator? If so, does anyone have pics of this?
4. Assuming I use thin aluminum sheet metal, what is the best way to attach the sheet metal to the car?
5. If I make holes on either side of the aluminum box for brake ducts, will this flow enough air to the rotors or would I need some type of fan/blower?
Thanks!!!
I plan to move forward with a cooling mod but want to know which direction I should take.
1. Would boxing in the radiator be more efficient than installing a deeper air dam (without boxing in the sides of the radiator)?
2. If I do box in my radiator, would it be best to box in the lower part as well (radiator support to front bumper cover) or would it be better to box in the sides of the radiator and make a deeper air dam (leaving the bottom of the radiator "open")?
3. Does boxing in the radiator consist of blocking off the top of the radiator? If so, does anyone have pics of this?
4. Assuming I use thin aluminum sheet metal, what is the best way to attach the sheet metal to the car?
5. If I make holes on either side of the aluminum box for brake ducts, will this flow enough air to the rotors or would I need some type of fan/blower?
Thanks!!!
Here's a couple of radiator boxing threads. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Break out the tools and tear into it. The bumper cover is easy to remove and seeing it with your own eyes will help give you a better idea of the project's scope.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/engine-tuning-214/765568-boxing-radiator-heat-exchanger.html
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/open-track-racing-203/332482-boxing-radiator.html
As far as brake cooling, I suggest removing the fog lamps and using these gigantic (5" ?) holes for brake cooling - assuming you have a Cobra bumper cover. You'll see once you tear into the project that the "box" for the radiator will be well inboard from the typical entrance for brake cooling (fog lamp holes). So, there's shouldn't be a need for holes in the box.
Fashion a 5"-to-3" reducer to a standard 3" cooling duct and finally to a brake backing plate. Ductwork from All Star Performance and backing plates from Quantum is the cheapest solution I've found to date. The backing plates are the best compromise of price and cooling you'll find. Many of the alternatives out there direct incoming air to the inboard rotor face, not to the center of the rotor as they should.
ALLSTAR PERFORMANCE 42150 BRAKE DUCT HOSE 3''X10' $36.99 BUY ONLINE
94-04 Mustang 3 Race Duct Plate Kit [04802.3DK] - $75.00 : Quantum Motorsports online store, High quality performance parts for your street or race car.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/engine-tuning-214/765568-boxing-radiator-heat-exchanger.html
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/open-track-racing-203/332482-boxing-radiator.html
As far as brake cooling, I suggest removing the fog lamps and using these gigantic (5" ?) holes for brake cooling - assuming you have a Cobra bumper cover. You'll see once you tear into the project that the "box" for the radiator will be well inboard from the typical entrance for brake cooling (fog lamp holes). So, there's shouldn't be a need for holes in the box.
Fashion a 5"-to-3" reducer to a standard 3" cooling duct and finally to a brake backing plate. Ductwork from All Star Performance and backing plates from Quantum is the cheapest solution I've found to date. The backing plates are the best compromise of price and cooling you'll find. Many of the alternatives out there direct incoming air to the inboard rotor face, not to the center of the rotor as they should.
ALLSTAR PERFORMANCE 42150 BRAKE DUCT HOSE 3''X10' $36.99 BUY ONLINE
94-04 Mustang 3 Race Duct Plate Kit [04802.3DK] - $75.00 : Quantum Motorsports online store, High quality performance parts for your street or race car.
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The fog lamp holes do work great (see mine), but I think Ian has a Saleen front bumper, so that may be a little harder to fab up. But maybe not-same principal. 
Mu22tang...thanks for the links and info! I'll be reviewing those threads for more details on boxing in. As for the brake ducts, I have the Saleen front bumper so I dont have foglight holes to use for brake ducts...
Greg...thanks for clarifying my frot bumper!
I'm still looking for opinions on which is better...boxing in the radiator completely or boxing just the sides and adding a deeper air dam?? Also, would gabbing brake duct holes on the sides of the radiator box flow enough air or will a fan/blower be necessary?
Thanks!
Greg...thanks for clarifying my frot bumper!
I'm still looking for opinions on which is better...boxing in the radiator completely or boxing just the sides and adding a deeper air dam?? Also, would gabbing brake duct holes on the sides of the radiator box flow enough air or will a fan/blower be necessary?
Thanks!
I think using the forward facing holes is the easiest way to get front brake cooling. You may have to get creative with your inlet. Check out that Quantum link above to see the variety of sizes and shapes of brake inlets that they offer.
So today I found some time to do a little work on the car. I went to Lowes and bought 3.5" wide garden trim and cut it just a tad bit longer than the stock air dam. I attached it to the existing air dam and it sits quite low so I hope it doesnt get too beat up on the street!
I also boxed in the sides of my radiator. I used foam as someone said to use on corral.net. It looks pretty secure after just squeezing it between the radiator and the front bumper. I wrapped in black duct tape so it wouldn't look too bad from the outside.
I'm hoping both of these mods will help me at my next trackday in September. I'll post pics tonight. Thanks for all the pointers everyone!
I also boxed in the sides of my radiator. I used foam as someone said to use on corral.net. It looks pretty secure after just squeezing it between the radiator and the front bumper. I wrapped in black duct tape so it wouldn't look too bad from the outside.
I'm hoping both of these mods will help me at my next trackday in September. I'll post pics tonight. Thanks for all the pointers everyone!
Awaiting pics.
How'd you attach the air dam? I'm looking for options where I could easily remove it...so some sort of re-usable fastener.....or if the mount is small/unnoticeable then leaving that and having the ability to quickly replace the garden trim
I cringe at drilling holes in my car though
How'd you attach the air dam? I'm looking for options where I could easily remove it...so some sort of re-usable fastener.....or if the mount is small/unnoticeable then leaving that and having the ability to quickly replace the garden trim
I cringe at drilling holes in my car though
I attached the new 3.5" air dam onto the stock air dam. I drilled holes into both the new and old air dam and basically just zip-tied them together. It doesnt look like it'll come loose so I figured I'd give this mounting method a shot. Mine will not be removed so I did not use any removeable fasteners, but I'm sure you can do exactly as I did and just use bolts with wing nuts for easy installation/removal. I think using the stock air dam as your attachment point will be the easiest way to go about this mod since it's already there and pretty secure.
I have one last question for you guys... should I block off the bottom of the left and right side of the bumper? If I recall correctly, the stock bumper has a piece of plastic that attaches to it on each end of the bumper that blocks air from going up the sides. :??:
Here is my attempt at boxing in the sides of my radiator...notice that I still have the stock rubber/plastic pieces that act like somewhat of a "box" for the radiator. I left them in place but my foam pieces are what will really box in the air.
TOP VIEW OF DRIVER SIDE:
TOP VIEW OF PASSENGER SIDE:
BOTTOM VIEW OF DRIVER SIDE:
BOTTOM VIEW OF PASSENGER SIDE:
HERE IS THE 3.5" AIR DAM (with my faux sponsor IMPRM:shrug:...it's my buddy's company:coolman
I have one last question for you guys... should I block off the bottom of the left and right side of the bumper? If I recall correctly, the stock bumper has a piece of plastic that attaches to it on each end of the bumper that blocks air from going up the sides. :??:
Here is my attempt at boxing in the sides of my radiator...notice that I still have the stock rubber/plastic pieces that act like somewhat of a "box" for the radiator. I left them in place but my foam pieces are what will really box in the air.
TOP VIEW OF DRIVER SIDE:
TOP VIEW OF PASSENGER SIDE:
BOTTOM VIEW OF DRIVER SIDE:
BOTTOM VIEW OF PASSENGER SIDE:
HERE IS THE 3.5" AIR DAM (with my faux sponsor IMPRM:shrug:...it's my buddy's company:coolman
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Looks good man!!! get some touch up paint for the underside of the bumper too :beer:
Thanks bro! the touch up paint really isnt necessary...its literally the bottom and cant be seen (you can see it in the pic because of the angle of the picture). Plus, I'd scrape it all over agin going in and out of my garage:nonono:
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Oh damn that sucks lol.. Yea man it looks great!! I gotta do this to my car whenever I get it back.. I don't even have the regular air damn on my car.. I don't know wtf happened to it actually lol.
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