Are we all going to need bottom end rebuilds....

[1IDSPTTR]

In one of the other threads, the topic turned to the fact that our pistons have a teflon coating on them which according to some people, has caused trouble with wear and scored cylinder walls. For me the feeling of deja vu fills me with dread. I had a '74 Vega as a kid, and I remember the talk about the aluminum block with teflon cylinder coatings, and how much of a technical advance this setup was. Then after a few years, after every Vega began blowing oil out its exhaust, GM decided it was a bad idea, and discarded it. Now I hear that our pistons have a teflon coating for much the same reasons, and that the folks with the greatest horsepower are now starting to see issues with scored cylinders and required rebuilds...The last thing I would have believed is that I spent almost 40 grand on a rehashed idea that was a mistake in the first place. WTF was FoMoCo thinking if this is true. Tell me we ain't gonna all need a new bottom end after 60-80K miles when that coating wears off...:bash: :bash: :bash:

Allan

 

[cobrapete03']

Time will tell, apparently is doesnt take 80k miles for the problem to show itself, rather 4-8k miles in some cases...Until I see the problem for myself, I just consider it hearsay...I've still not seen any photos documenting the problem with all the blown engines...Most blown engines are becasue of holes in the pistons not teflon coatings wearing off...My .02


-pete:coolman:

 

[1 bad bullitt]

as long as you stay away from the high boost I dont see any reason this motor wont last til 150,000 mile but like I said before, pullied cars are gonna live a shorter life, its a given you get 15psi+ of boost and it aint lasting I dont care how good your tune is, its gonna need to be ringed and honed at a minumum.

Boost, thats one hell of a drug...

 

[stangin]

Originally posted by 1 bad bullitt
as long as you stay away from the high boost I dont see any reason this motor wont last til 150,000 mile but like I said before, pullied cars are gonna live a shorter life, its a given you get 15psi+ of boost and it aint lasting I dont care how good your tune is, its gonna need to be ringed and honed at a minumum.

Boost, thats one hell of a drug...

I disagree, having disassembled my short block and visually inspecting the pistons.. the teflon definately rubs off and into the cylinder walls. Every single piston had evidence of rubbing. I have talked to several modular engine rebuilders and they all say the pistons are crap, made from a much softer alloy compared to a quality forged piston without a teflon coating. The teflon rubs off and once that starts then scoring of the pistons begins. I only have 6000 miles on my engine. I have only had the KB for less than 1000 miles and was pulleyed for about 600 miles. It does not take long. My engine ran fine, just had a progressively louder tick from the piston scoring after the teflon rubbed off.

Let me put it another way, you can buy the same replacement pistons for about $200 from Ford. To buy a quality set of forged pistons is about $600. I would think that in itself would be a reason to worry about it, Ford really skimped on the pistons. If you remain at stock boost levels they may last a while, I betcha they dont last as long as the Vega's did even at stock boost levels Just have to sit back and see what happens..

 

[trey193]

They charged 300 per hole to replace the factory pistons in a friends car. 2400 for pistons !:rollseyes They ended up with a 7000+ bill all because the teflon came off of a couple pistons and inturn scarred a couple Cyl . walls. I thought it was a joke that the factory Mahle pistons were 300 each from FORD but thats what he was charged! Oh yeah no warranty on this car because they saw evidence of where a chip had been in the computer!:nonono:

 

[TRBO VNM]

if the pistons are the weak link and you upgrade them, then something else in the chain will fail. nothing is bullet proof.

however, how much would it cost to replace these pistons with a better quality piston, but same specs so there is no additional motor work?

I am trading mine in and getting an 04 friday, with very low miles is there really any motor work needed or can you just pop the factory out and pop the aftermarket in?

I am sure a motor with some miles on it needs some sort of freshening up, but a basically new motor shouldn't, should it?

then you need to think about cost. say 1k for the pistons, then what for the replacement?

 

[i8u]

Originally posted by 03Redfiresnk
if the pistons are the weak link and you upgrade them, then something else in the chain will fail. nothing is bullet proof.

however, how much would it cost to replace these pistons with a better quality piston, but same specs so there is no additional motor work?

I am trading mine in and getting an 04 friday, with very low miles is there really any motor work needed or can you just pop the factory out and pop the aftermarket in?

I am sure a motor with some miles on it needs some sort of freshening up, but a basically new motor shouldn't, should it?

then you need to think about cost. say 1k for the pistons, then what for the replacement?

If you are going to do this you might as well spend a little extra cash and put in new bearings. It is not a simple swap. Labor would be expensive.

 

[scotto]

The reality is that anytime you add a significant amount of boost youre risking having motor problems. More boost = more heat
Best bet is to stick with 12lbs or so and make sure and supply plenty of fuel. Also, I think that the aftermarket blowers are probably better to run the more boost since they will keep the charge a little cooler, since they are more efficient. JMO.

 

[stangin]

Originally posted by trey193
They charged 300 per hole to replace the factory pistons in a friends car. 2400 for pistons !:rollseyes They ended up with a 7000+ bill all because the teflon came off of a couple pistons and inturn scarred a couple Cyl . walls. I thought it was a joke that the factory Mahle pistons were 300 each from FORD but thats what he was charged! Oh yeah no warranty on this car because they saw evidence of where a chip had been in the computer!:nonono:

Oh my.. that is customer service, just bend over. I would not let ford touch my car, that is why I am doing it all myself, I want it done correctly. So they charged him $300 for each piston $2400 total and now he has the same problem.. crappy pistons? That would make me sick. I would have brought them a set of Diamond forged pistons at the very least to have them install those.

 

[Juiced-03]

Originally posted by 03Redfiresnk
if the pistons are the weak link and you upgrade them, then something else in the chain will fail. nothing is bullet proof.

however, how much would it cost to replace these pistons with a better quality piston, but same specs so there is no additional motor work?

I am trading mine in and getting an 04 friday, with very low miles is there really any motor work needed or can you just pop the factory out and pop the aftermarket in?

I am sure a motor with some miles on it needs some sort of freshening up, but a basically new motor shouldn't, should it?

then you need to think about cost. say 1k for the pistons, then what for the replacement?

Very good question, I was wondering this myself. But then I have to wonder, why not throw in a VT stroker while it is out, and maybe some of the JDM stage 3 cams :idea:

You would think that while it is torn down, you might as well do it all at once.

 

[stangin]

Originally posted by 03Redfiresnk
if the pistons are the weak link and you upgrade them, then something else in the chain will fail. nothing is bullet proof.

however, how much would it cost to replace these pistons with a better quality piston, but same specs so there is no additional motor work?

I am trading mine in and getting an 04 friday, with very low miles is there really any motor work needed or can you just pop the factory out and pop the aftermarket in?

I am sure a motor with some miles on it needs some sort of freshening up, but a basically new motor shouldn't, should it?

then you need to think about cost. say 1k for the pistons, then what for the replacement?

I think the chain is pretty tough.. I doubt that RPMs of 7000 or less there should not be a problem. I have not heard of any anyway.

You cant just install pistons and expect it to live, you have to bore the cylinder for the piston and rings so they will seat properly. You could buy a brand new block from ford already machined/ready to go for about $350 - $400 and install your new std bore good quality pistons and internals into it. Good Diamond pistons run about $600, new rod bearings run about $70 from ford and the main bearings about $40 from ford. Head gaskets $150 - $200, new head bolts $50 or reuseable head studs for $200, new main bolts about $40 or main studs $100 or so. Misc gaskets will run about another $150 or so total. Then add labor if you dont do it yourself.. probably another $1000.

A almost new motor shouldnt need a refresh, but then how was it driven.. I am replacing my engine at 6000 miles and I was actually pretty easy on it. If it has the tick used, I would walk away from it and not buy it.. could be the head tick or the missing teflon on the piston tick.

 

[stangin]

Originally posted by Juiced-03
Very good question, I was wondering this myself. But then I have to wonder, why not throw in a VT stroker while it is out, and maybe some of the JDM stage 3 cams :idea:

You would think that while it is torn down, you might as well do it all at once.

I have a stroker on order, the 324 from VT.. I think, if they can deliver it soon I will take it if not I will cancel the order. I am also rebuilding the factory short block with Diamond forged pistons.. along with Stage II Crower Cams, installing the 26 spline input shaft, Centerforce clutch, flywheel and TOB, Apten cooling mod, p & p the heads, a multiangle valve job, headers, IRS brace, Quadrant & FW adjuster. Might as well do it right and do it once..
I am not pulling the engine out again later.

 

[trey193]

I tried to get him to buy a set of good pistons but the only way the car would leave with warranty was with the factory pistons installed! Hell the best set of pistons you could put in our motors would be less than a 1000, 2400 for a set of 8 I still cant beleive it!

 

[DSG03Snake]

God I hope we won't need a rebuild, I really don't want to deal with that, which is one of the reasons my pulley is stock now.