It's really anyone' guess.
The easter egg in the dash does suggest right before NAIAS, for what it's worth.
Anyone else frustrated with Ford over the next GT500?
- Thread starter biminiLX
- Start date
The easter egg in the dash does suggest right before NAIAS, for what it's worth.
11/17/14
I had a lengthy conversation last night with someone that was willing to share some information on the upcoming GT500 (or whatever it may end being called). He was in building 57, where some of FPP and Roush reside. You can see the building in the following link and if you zoom in you may recognize a few vehicles shown.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2986228,-83.1967361,346m/data=!3m1!1e3
Anyway, he had the opportunity to take a closer look at a number of "mules" that were either on the ground or up in the air. I believe he stated that he saw somewhere around 9 or 10 of them. They were all cloaked so that you couldn't see make much of the body work.
Powerplant is definitely a Coyote-based V8 with supercharger up top. While the blocks he saw looked to be aluminum there was an apparent discussion regarding consideration at some point of an iron block possibly due to paper thin cylinder walls and durability on this car and in this configuration. This would imply a bit of a weight penalty that runs counter to the move to keep weight down so I would hope Ford can nail this one down and keep it as light as possible. I asked about horsepower and the number he was told was somewhere in the neighborhood of 720. Nothing is certain until final certification takes place but this should provide at least a small window into what looks to be a 700+ hp car.
Transmission. This may end up being the most controversial aspect to this car. Looking back, Ford has gotten away with Cobra's, GT500's, and the current GT350 with only one transmission - a manual. GM and Chrysler have had both stick and auto but for whatever reason Ford has been unwilling to offer two choices. Well, it looks like the manual may have been replaced by a DCT (dual clutch transmission). If this is indeed the case, I'm already tired of the incessant complaining to come.
I don't think many noticed it but in the leaked brake caliper/rotor photo you can actually see a tiny portion of the transmission. Look to the left of the caliper...
I rotated it slightly to level out what looks to be the case and two parallel lines for cooling running alongside it. Cropped and enhanced, you get this...
I compared the above to the TR3160, TR6060 in both previous GT500 and current GM TR6060, as well as the new 10-speed automatic. None looked close. The new 7-speed DCT from Tremec sure does though.
http://www.tremec.com/menu.php?m=155
In essence, there appears to some photo evidence to support the argument of Ford moving to this transmission in the next Mustang kingpin. Expensive? It would seem so. Heavy? I can't find a listed dry weight but one could certainly imagine it being heavier than a TR3160, for example. We shall see.
Also witnessed were two-piece steel driveshafts in place. I was really hoping Ford would move back to a carbon fiber unit ala the '13/'14 GT500 but on this day none were seen. No mention of any IRS changes other than something to do with the rear control arms or at least their respective geometry and how they align with the car.
Wheels were covered as many have seen in photographs. Diameter looks to have been increased to 20". I don't think he was 100% on whether the rear tires he saw were a 315 or 335 but he made it clear they looked huge in 20" diameter. I don't think a 335 could be squeezed in there without some major poke. Unless there was a sheetmetal revision which allowed more room in the wheel well but I seriously doubt that.
All I have to share for now.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2986228,-83.1967361,346m/data=!3m1!1e3
Anyway, he had the opportunity to take a closer look at a number of "mules" that were either on the ground or up in the air. I believe he stated that he saw somewhere around 9 or 10 of them. They were all cloaked so that you couldn't see make much of the body work.
Powerplant is definitely a Coyote-based V8 with supercharger up top. While the blocks he saw looked to be aluminum there was an apparent discussion regarding consideration at some point of an iron block possibly due to paper thin cylinder walls and durability on this car and in this configuration. This would imply a bit of a weight penalty that runs counter to the move to keep weight down so I would hope Ford can nail this one down and keep it as light as possible. I asked about horsepower and the number he was told was somewhere in the neighborhood of 720. Nothing is certain until final certification takes place but this should provide at least a small window into what looks to be a 700+ hp car.
Transmission. This may end up being the most controversial aspect to this car. Looking back, Ford has gotten away with Cobra's, GT500's, and the current GT350 with only one transmission - a manual. GM and Chrysler have had both stick and auto but for whatever reason Ford has been unwilling to offer two choices. Well, it looks like the manual may have been replaced by a DCT (dual clutch transmission). If this is indeed the case, I'm already tired of the incessant complaining to come.
I don't think many noticed it but in the leaked brake caliper/rotor photo you can actually see a tiny portion of the transmission. Look to the left of the caliper...
I rotated it slightly to level out what looks to be the case and two parallel lines for cooling running alongside it. Cropped and enhanced, you get this...
I compared the above to the TR3160, TR6060 in both previous GT500 and current GM TR6060, as well as the new 10-speed automatic. None looked close. The new 7-speed DCT from Tremec sure does though.
http://www.tremec.com/menu.php?m=155
In essence, there appears to some photo evidence to support the argument of Ford moving to this transmission in the next Mustang kingpin. Expensive? It would seem so. Heavy? I can't find a listed dry weight but one could certainly imagine it being heavier than a TR3160, for example. We shall see.
Also witnessed were two-piece steel driveshafts in place. I was really hoping Ford would move back to a carbon fiber unit ala the '13/'14 GT500 but on this day none were seen. No mention of any IRS changes other than something to do with the rear control arms or at least their respective geometry and how they align with the car.
Wheels were covered as many have seen in photographs. Diameter looks to have been increased to 20". I don't think he was 100% on whether the rear tires he saw were a 315 or 335 but he made it clear they looked huge in 20" diameter. I don't think a 335 could be squeezed in there without some major poke. Unless there was a sheetmetal revision which allowed more room in the wheel well but I seriously doubt that.
All I have to share for now.
Thanks for passing along the info, Tob.
I know it's super-obvious, but I wonder if it will have 755HP?
I know it's super-obvious, but I wonder if it will have 755HP?
@Tob
Weight: TR-7007 DCT: 85 kg (187 lb); TR-9007 DCT: 90 kg (198 lb)
Not sure what the GT350 transmission weighs but per the website the base one is 121lbs
Weight: TR-7007 DCT: 85 kg (187 lb); TR-9007 DCT: 90 kg (198 lb)
Not sure what the GT350 transmission weighs but per the website the base one is 121lbs
I would be shocked if Ford fell back on an iron block but it is a quick solution solving a few durability issues. The current Coyote block has done away with the steel liners which makes modding a bit more risky and a lot more expensive should you wad a cylinder which is a fairly common failure mode running higher than factory boost levels. I'm curious if Ford will take steps to dissuade people from messing with the engine to avoid warrantee repairs which can be accomplished thru the ECU. Haven't seen too many modded, if any Trinity engines making the power of the 4.6 or 5.4 which can approach 1000hp fairly easily. Making the power of a 5.8 with a 5.0 will be a tall order
I'm a bit skeptical the GT500 will become a reality most of what I'm hearing is wishful thinking augmented by a heavy does of speculation and not enough of hard evidence but TOB's post is reason for optimism. Then again Ford felt it was worth the investment to equip the 2003 Cobra with a blower despite the fact the car was slated to be replaced in 2005. Perhaps history will repeat itself
If I recall the TR3160 has a fairly low torque rating compared to the TR6060. A 7 speed seems like 1 or 2 gears too many with the wide powerband of a PD blown engine.
Lets keep our fingers crossed. It would be sad if Ford never produced a stump pulling blown V8 Mustang. An S550 GT500 would be totally awesome and will suck the wind right out of the GT350 on the showroom floor! That would be a lot more appealing to me than a Demon which could use a healthy does of Jenny Craig.
I'm a bit skeptical the GT500 will become a reality most of what I'm hearing is wishful thinking augmented by a heavy does of speculation and not enough of hard evidence but TOB's post is reason for optimism. Then again Ford felt it was worth the investment to equip the 2003 Cobra with a blower despite the fact the car was slated to be replaced in 2005. Perhaps history will repeat itself
If I recall the TR3160 has a fairly low torque rating compared to the TR6060. A 7 speed seems like 1 or 2 gears too many with the wide powerband of a PD blown engine.
Lets keep our fingers crossed. It would be sad if Ford never produced a stump pulling blown V8 Mustang. An S550 GT500 would be totally awesome and will suck the wind right out of the GT350 on the showroom floor! That would be a lot more appealing to me than a Demon which could use a healthy does of Jenny Craig.
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If we're looking at the gauge cluster, the RPM at 55mph and in 7th gear seems high. Might be more in line with the 1:1 7th gear in the 10spd.
Also, the 03 Cobra debuted at Chicago, as well as the 93 Cobra. Maybe that's the show? 2nd week of February I believe.
Also, the 03 Cobra debuted at Chicago, as well as the 93 Cobra. Maybe that's the show? 2nd week of February I believe.
I had a lengthy conversation last night with someone that was willing to share some information on the upcoming GT500 (or whatever it may end being called). He was in building 57, where some of FPP and Roush reside. You can see the building in the following link and if you zoom in you may recognize a few vehicles shown.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2986228,-83.1967361,346m/data=!3m1!1e3
Anyway, he had the opportunity to take a closer look at a number of "mules" that were either on the ground or up in the air. I believe he stated that he saw somewhere around 9 or 10 of them. They were all cloaked so that you couldn't see make much of the body work.
Powerplant is definitely a Coyote-based V8 with supercharger up top. While the blocks he saw looked to be aluminum there was an apparent discussion regarding consideration at some point of an iron block possibly due to paper thin cylinder walls and durability on this car and in this configuration. This would imply a bit of a weight penalty that runs counter to the move to keep weight down so I would hope Ford can nail this one down and keep it as light as possible. I asked about horsepower and the number he was told was somewhere in the neighborhood of 720. Nothing is certain until final certification takes place but this should provide at least a small window into what looks to be a 700+ hp car.
Transmission. This may end up being the most controversial aspect to this car. Looking back, Ford has gotten away with Cobra's, GT500's, and the current GT350 with only one transmission - a manual. GM and Chrysler have had both stick and auto but for whatever reason Ford has been unwilling to offer two choices. Well, it looks like the manual may have been replaced by a DCT (dual clutch transmission). If this is indeed the case, I'm already tired of the incessant complaining to come.
I don't think many noticed it but in the leaked brake caliper/rotor photo you can actually see a tiny portion of the transmission. Look to the left of the caliper...
View attachment 1450915
I rotated it slightly to level out what looks to be the case and two parallel lines for cooling running alongside it. Cropped and enhanced, you get this...
View attachment 1450916
I compared the above to the TR3160, TR6060 in both previous GT500 and current GM TR6060, as well as the new 10-speed automatic. None looked close. The new 7-speed DCT from Tremec sure does though.
View attachment 1450917
http://www.tremec.com/menu.php?m=155
In essence, there appears to some photo evidence to support the argument of Ford moving to this transmission in the next Mustang kingpin. Expensive? It would seem so. Heavy? I can't find a listed dry weight but one could certainly imagine it being heavier than a TR3160, for example. We shall see.
Also witnessed were two-piece steel driveshafts in place. I was really hoping Ford would move back to a carbon fiber unit ala the '13/'14 GT500 but on this day none were seen. No mention of any IRS changes other than something to do with the rear control arms or at least their respective geometry and how they align with the car.
Wheels were covered as many have seen in photographs. Diameter looks to have been increased to 20". I don't think he was 100% on whether the rear tires he saw were a 315 or 335 but he made it clear they looked huge in 20" diameter. I don't think a 335 could be squeezed in there without some major poke. Unless there was a sheetmetal revision which allowed more room in the wheel well but I seriously doubt that.
All I have to share for now.
I've been telling people for a while that a DCT was going to at least be available. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. I seriously doubt Ford is going to step backwards and revert to an iron block. Especially not with the number of exotics out there making stupid power and torque from the factory. That would be a serious display of can't do attitude on Ford's part.
Doesn't anyone up there have a drone they do a little recon with???
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I think the problem here is that Ford is competing with European cars on the world stage. Last year I attended a show for new car models all manufactures were represented. In that light, the '18 Mustang was right were it should be. New styling, comfortable, handles great, suitable horsepower. Conversely the Dodge Charger Hellcat looked like something Joe Dirt would own. The sticker was 70k+ for an obnoxious yellow turd with tape stripes. No one gave it a second look. Now as a mustang enthusiast I will say that the GT350 was meant to best a BMW M4 not the Hellcat. Ford is light years ahead on technology. Now, that being said, I too am getting tired of losing the horsepower bragging rights. Fords halo Mustang the GT350 is awesome, but the GT500 better best both the Hellcat and the Camaro in the horsepower war.
Good EYE sir.
They may not have a choice. Same thing happened with the Terminator having to resort to an iron block despite the fact they had to add all that pork to the nose of the car with the blower. The Coyote engine has gone thru several revision to address structural issues and has sealing problems with the larger bore under the added stress of a blower. Should be interesting to see how this plays out if it plays out at all.
I'd love to design a blown, short stroke, 5L v10 or v12. Maybe when I retire.
Then it was full year before they hit dealer lots.
Put my deposit for allocation down today.
Where do you stand in the list?
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