Another E85 vs Meth Thread...

[bmorecobra]

Before somebody shoots me for creating another E85 vs methanol thread I am simply here to jot down some concerns that I was pondering over earlier today vs the two. I have been a die hard E85 supporter for a while now however have not had a E85 station remotely close to me until recently. Word has it that it will be available at a pump a few miles away from my house next month.

Anyhow after thinking about it this morning I may have changed my own mind drawing some conclusions, tell me if I'm crazy but here is what I came to:

E85:
Advantages
-no worrying about extra components failing
-just fuel up and go, no extra tanks to fill
-high octane AND runs extremely cool for more timing
-relatively cheap, about the same as 87 octane per gallon
-better for the environment :wf:

Disadvantages
-blend changes from winter to summer, mandating a different tune (something that is not only pricey but who wants to test the fuel before they put it in the car depending on the area)
-not available everywhere, especially if you go on a cruise past your local corn station
-you have to worry about either draining your tank or running enough through your system to make sure no 93 is left to avoid knock
-Requires 50% more fuel to operate, necessitating a huge fuel system and over sized injectors=Money
-Fillups are more frequent due to the fact more fuel is consumed

Meth Injection:
Advantages
-you can have the same fuel in your tank for your DD/low performance tunes as you would your "race" or 'kill" tunes, simply turn on the meth
-huge octane boost
-cheap, simply buy some windshield washer fluid and your good to go
-worried about running out? Keep an extra bottle of windshield washer fluid in the trunk
-wont run out quickly if used only for "kill" tunes
-yes a pump can fail, but relatively speaking your fuel pump could fail too at anytime
-If worried about low level of meth simply install a low level metering system

Disadvantages
-Component failure, leading to catastrophic failure in some cases
-extra fuel tank to fill up and monitor
-for a premium system they are pricey as well as in depth labor charges if having installed by shop
-possible uneven distribution leading to inconsistency
-not as cool as E85

Looking at all the advantages and disadvantages if I plan on running two or more tunes, one mild and the other a "kill" tune. If going this route it appears meth may make more sense. I would only need the meth for the kill tune which in turn means I wouldnt run out every other day like some people complain about. The AIS stage 2 kit was the one I was looking at which comes with a low level warning system and a tri nozzle to better distribute the meth to solve the low level problem and distribution issue.
I have 80lb injectors now, I would love to upgrade to ID2000s and even a triple pump system but that is over a grand for the injectors and another 600 to upgrade my double pump system. I still support corn but at this point it seems like meth may make more sense in my situation. Let me know what you guys think about the pros and cons I listed and if I am making any sense here! Thanks in advance,
--Garrett

 

[AntiHeightPunk]

i went with meth because i could just use 93. E85 isnt too available around here yet and to be honest im afraid of keeping a 55 gallon drum in the garage.

 

[04sleeper]

Disadvantages
-blend changes from winter to summer, mandating a different tune (something that is not only pricey but who wants to test the fuel before they put it in the car depending on the area)

Not true if tuned properly. There is no need to have two tunes for winter and summer blended fuels.

-not available everywhere, especially if you go on a cruise past your local corn station

True

-you have to worry about either draining your tank or running enough through your system to make sure no 93 is left to avoid knock

Not true. It mixes perfectly with gasoline and the octane isn't really affected until you get to around the E50 mark. So you don't have to worry if there is a little gasoline in the tank before you fill up.

-Requires 50% more fuel to operate, necessitating a huge fuel system and over sized injectors=Money

Not true. Not sure where you read 50% more fuel but it not correct. About 25% max is all that you would need to increase.

-Fillups are more frequent due to the fact more fuel is consumed

True. It consumes around 10-15% more fuel if tuned properly.


You will also never get the distribution as accurate or as precise as E85 using the factory location for fuel distribution to the engine. Namely the injectors.

 

[bmorecobra]

04sleeper those are all valid points, I apologize for the incorrect "50%" number (I hate putting out false info). Anyhow, do you believe I am right in my assumptions here, as of right now meth doesn't seem to be any more of a hassle in this case. E85 is tempting but it's only one station and from what I understand 80lb injectors with a Glenn's 1000hp system are only good for about 700-750whp; where as meth w/93 would still have some headroom leftover.

 

[04sleeper]

In this case, it may be beneficial.

I still prefer E85, but with only 1 station, it might not be optimal.

I personally would like to have the benefit 100% of the time rather than some.

What you really need to do is determine your power goals. Then lay out each system and see the cost difference. Weigh the pros and cons of each.

I personally just like the simplicity of running E85. You know it is always working just by your car running. With Meth, there is really no guarantee that it is working. Sure you can hook up something if the pump goes out, sucks air, has a clogged nozzle, etc.... But I do not personally prefer to go that direction.

Maybe for you this is a better option.

 

[bmorecobra]

I concur the simplicity of just filling up and roll with E85 is what is so highly appealing. As of right now two lower power tunes (400-600rwhp) on 93, followed by one kill tune (700+rwhp) on (E85 or meth) is the goal.
Now my other thought is will E85 be able to offer advantages with characteristics such as spool time and TQ numbers vs meth?

 

[04sleeper]

I concur the simplicity of just filling up and roll with E85 is what is so highly appealing. As of right now two lower power tunes (400-600rwhp) on 93, followed by one kill tune (700+rwhp) on (E85 or meth) is the goal.
Now my other thought is will E85 be able to offer advantages with characteristics such as spool time and TQ numbers vs meth?

It actually will spool quicker than Meth and should produce more TQ as well.

 

[bmorecobra]

It actually will spool quicker than Meth and should produce more TQ as well.

Interesting. Any idea why that is?

If anybody else can contribute some knowledge too, especially anybody that has run both E85 or methanol and can attest as to which they preferred
(and as to why).

 

[AluminatorSnake]

Meth Injection:
Advantages
-you can have the same fuel in your tank for your DD/low performance tunes as you would your "race" or 'kill" tunes, simply turn on the meth
-huge octane boost
-cheap, simply buy some windshield washer fluid and your good to go
-worried about running out? Keep an extra bottle of windshield washer fluid in the trunk
-wont run out quickly if used only for "kill" tunes
-yes a pump can fail, but relatively speaking your fuel pump could fail too at anytime
-If worried about low level of meth simply install a low level metering system

Disadvantages
-Component failure, leading to catastrophic failure in some cases
-extra fuel tank to fill up and monitor
-for a premium system they are pricey as well as in depth labor charges if having installed by shop
-possible uneven distribution leading to inconsistency
-not as cool as E85

--Garrett

I will only comment on meth injection as i have no experience with e85.

I use the snow performance stage 2 kit with their safe injection box. This gives me a huge saftey zone... if anything happens in the system such as pump failure the box cuts timing to save your motor. So with a safe injection box no need to worry about engine failure due to component failure.

I have my kit set to come in at 4 lbs of boost. With the system i have you can set the injecting to start at a desired boost level. So, that way you can run the system and kill tune at all times if desired and never inject a single drop of methanol until you get into boost. The stuff lasts a long time, i have a 3 quart tank in my trunk and have ran 3 tanks of gas through the car since installation and have beat on the car pretty heavily and still have around 2.5 quarts left.

I would reccomend to run actual meth fluid such as boost juice or some sort of 50/50 mix of water and meth, because not all washer fluids contain the same amount of meth and that can alter your octane rating. Many washer fluids 15-30% methanol content depending on what temperature rating. You can find higher content but you just have to look. If your going to keep a gallon jug of that in the back of your car you might as well keep a gallon of boost juice from snow perf. in your car. A gallon is like $7 and lasts forever in the car and it also has and infinite shelf life so it wont break down or deteriorate. If you do by chance run out completely, just switch tunes to a non meth tune or dont get into boost.

The good kits come with or have and option of a level light indicator which makes it easy to monitor levels. They are simple to install and tune with. And as long as you have the proper jet size and proper nozzle position, equal distribution is not a worry.

 

[SteedaX47]

Interesting. Any idea why that is?

If anybody else can contribute some knowledge too, especially anybody that has run both E85 or methanol and can attest as to which they preferred
(and as to why).

Sorry, I have not run both meth and e85 but I do have experience with e85. Not a whole lot but I run it on my rear turbo gt, my buddy runs it on his wrx wagon, and my brother in law runs it on his 351 swapped t76 fox.

My experience was that my turbo did spool quicker. I have no actual explanation cause the e85 is colder and lower egt's but since you're burning more than with gasoline there's more mass of exhaust to flow, which will spool the turbo quicker/easier. Please someone else feel free to chime in to correct me lol.

On to the two different tunes thing, I'm in co and the temps vary between 100+ in the summer to 0 or negative in the winter... the two blends are different in that summer has more ethanol than the winter blend. This is not a huge deal aslong as the tune is right just like 04sleeper said. Only thing is id recommend tuning on summer blend cause then you can really take advantage of the more true 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline. Winter blend here can be as low as 70% ethanol, 30% gasoline. Since you need more fuel on an e85 tune, the car may run a lil rough when super cold cause the fuel has more gasoline in it than what it was tuned for. So now its running much more "rich" than it should be. Once running for 30 seconds it should return to normal. If that makes sense.

Again, please chime and correct me if what I'm sayin is wrong or doesn't make sense. I'm going off of what I've read and experienced and filling whatever gaps using my knowledge and way of thinking lol. Id hate to sound like an idiot so defitinely feel free to correct anything lol.

I hope any of what I've said helps