? about daugter getting stop/search/pat down

[caveeagle]

Please let me know if my wife and I are over reacting...

Last night, my 17yr old daughter and here best friend were pulled over while driving our family conversion van. (central FL)

I think the stop was probably legit. The van has had a tail light shorting issue lately, that I have not been able to sort out. (I thought I had it fixed BTW)

So, heres the isse:

The officer stopped her based on the tail light issue. Claimed that he "thought" he smelled pot in the van. Asked my daughter if he could search the van. Permission was granted, and he spent nearly 20 minutes rifling through every nook and cranny on our van.

At some point, he told both girls that he needed to make sure they were no 'armed' and did a 'pat down' on both of them. There was another male officer that showed up at some point. My daughter said the 2nd officer seemed a bit annoyed and did the 'eye roll' at some point. She felt that officer #2 was almost apologetic about the situation.

Daughter also, overheard COP-A telling Cop-B that "I really thought I smelled something". I would be pretty DAMED sure about that before I started pushing this issue in this day and age! Obviously, nothing was found and the they were given a warning for the light.

I am out of town for the week and got the call from my wife about what had happened. The wife was irate! The friends dad was also pretty bent about it. I know that everyone thinks their girls are angels, but I would bet you my cobra that my girl did not have any pot on her. She she is not even dating yet and spends most of here time volunteering at church function. So, just for the sake of this discussion pleae let's just assume that there was NO pot in or near the car!!

What really pi$$es me off the most is that if this guy really wanted to spend 20minutes looking for drugs, he would only have to drive about 4 blocks over the the east part of Winter Garden. We volunteer there helping out underprivleged kids and a older handicapped woman. Drug use in rampant and flaunted. You cant even hang with kids on the park/playground because of the flagrant drug use and degenerate antics.

I can think of no 'real' reason for this clown to search/ harass two middle classed tenage girls, than just to satisfy his perverted urges!!

I am now looking into the formal process for filing a complaint. The wife is pretty pissed and wants to take some action! Any advice??

 

[SVTPete83]

Usually in my town if there is a female search to be done they call a female officer to the scene just to avoid these types of situations. I am no police officer though

 

[FordSVTFan]

Please let me know if my wife and I are over reacting...

Last night, my 17yr old daughter and here best friend were pulled over while driving our family conversion van. (central FL)

I think the stop was probably legit. The van has had a tail light shorting issue lately, that I have not been able to sort out. (I thought I had it fixed BTW)

So, heres the isse:

The officer stopped her based on the tail light issue. Claimed that he "thought" he smelled pot in the van. Asked my daughter if he could search the van. Permission was granted, and he spent nearly 20 minutes rifling through every nook and cranny on our van.

At some point, he told both girls that he needed to make sure they were no 'armed' and did a 'pat down' on both of them. There was another male officer that showed up at some point. My daughter said the 2nd officer seemed a bit annoyed and did the 'eye roll' at some point. She felt that officer #2 was almost apologetic about the situation.

Daughter also, overheard COP-A telling Cop-B that "I really thought I smelled something". I would be pretty DAMED sure about that before I started pushing this issue in this day and age! Obviously, nothing was found and the they were given a warning for the light.

I am out of town for the week and got the call from my wife about what had happened. The wife was irate! The friends dad was also pretty bent about it. I know that everyone thinks their girls are angels, but I would bet you my cobra that my girl did not have any pot on her. She she is not even dating yet and spends most of here time volunteering at church function. So, just for the sake of this discussion pleae let's just assume that there was NO pot in or near the car!!

What really pi$$es me off the most is that if this guy really wanted to spend 20minutes looking for drugs, he would only have to drive about 4 blocks over the the east part of Winter Garden. We volunteer there helping out underprivleged kids and a older handicapped woman. Drug use in rampant and flaunted. You cant even hang with kids on the park/playground because of the flagrant drug use and degenerate antics.

I can think of no 'real' reason for this clown to search/ harass two middle classed tenage girls, than just to satisfy his perverted urges!!

I am now looking into the formal process for filing a complaint. The wife is pretty pissed and wants to take some action! Any advice??

It sounds like a newbie making the stop. The stop was based on PC. The girls did not have to consent to the search. Anytime I remove someone from their vehicle I pat them down for their safety and mine. Without a patdown you do not know if they are concealing a weapon, even "middle class teenage girls." It is for their safety because with a patdown if they make sudden movements it wont cause the alarm a sudden movement would without a patdown.

How does the officer know that they are "middle class?" Being middle class does not preclude them from doing illegal activity.

Bottom line is that if you feel that the actions were inappropriate you should file an complaint with the department/agency.

 

[NJ03SVTCobra]

Usually in my town if there is a female search to be done they call a female officer to the scene just to avoid these types of situations. I am no police officer though

Same thing here, but I have heard that when a male officer pats down a female due to a female officer being unavailable, they use the back of their hand when searching in the "sensitive" areas.

I am not sure if that is standard protocol or just something officers do to protect themselves from possible complaints. I am sure Adam can chime in and clarify whether this is standard protocol, or something male officers do to prevent any questionable judgement from the female they are searching.

 

[FordSVTFan]

Same thing here, but I have heard that when a male officer pats down a female due to a female officer being unavailable, they use the back of their hand when searching in the "sensitive" areas.

I am not sure if that is standard protocol or just something officers do to protect themselves from possible complaints. I am sure Adam can chime in and clarify whether this is standard protocol, or something male officers do to prevent any questionable judgement from the female they are searching.

A simple patdown for weapons was conducted and not a search. A full search, in most dept/agencies, requires privacy and usually two female officers. A patdown for weapons can be conducted by any officer. The reason he did the search with backup is likely because he wanted a witness. This type of patdown takes less than 30 seconds, so it is not a perv adventure.

 

[NJ03SVTCobra]

A simple patdown for weapons was conducted and not a search. A full search, in most dept/agencies, requires privacy and usually two female officers. A patdown for weapons can be conducted by any officer. The reason he did the search with backup is likely because he wanted a witness. This type of patdown takes less than 30 seconds, so it is not a perv adventure.

Thanks for the clarification! :beer:

Just curious however, is it standard protocol as a male officer to use the back of his hand when patting down a female in her "sensitive" areas, or was that just what individual officers choose to do to protect themselves?

 

[FordSVTFan]

Thanks for the clarification! :beer:

Just curious however, is it standard protocol as a male officer to use the back of his hand when patting down a female in her "sensitive" areas, or was that just what individual officers choose to do to protect themselves?

Individual thing. If you are going to be accused of wrongdoing it wont matter what part of your hand it is.

 

[Iceman II]

It appears the officer "thought" he smelled something and therefore asked for consent and consent was granted. Spending 20 minutes on a search is not unreasonable for a large conversion van. If the officer was absolutely positive he would have not even asked for consent! He would have said move aside.
Conducting a pat-down before a search of a vehicle had better be performed whether its a female or a male! For the safety of the officer and the persons.
For females its okay to use the back of your hand for a pat-down. I see no complaint being made of inappropriate touching or groping by the daughter or friend. Seems its only being made in one minds unless further evidence comes up. But, if it does why wasnt it reported immediately, one has to wonder.
At this point I do not see a sustained complaint.

 

[mustanginky]

he asked for consent to search the vehicle, and permission was granted. traffic stop was conducted legally from what you say likely happened. i think your problem is with the pat down. if an officer is taking a person out of the vehicle, he should pat them down. a weapons pat down can be done in this situation. ask any cop killed by a teenager. they don't know your daughter from a drug user.

i don't think anything wrong happened here, honestly, but i think you're upset by the pat down. cop doesn't know she's not a dope head. you in fact said that within close proximity there are tons of drug users (i.e. high narcotic area) and he was doing police work. if he had been doing something other than looking for dope he probably would have written your daughter a ticket and you'd be griping he needs to be stopping drug activity, which is what he seems he was trying to do.

 

[tomustang]

What really pi$$es me off the most is that if this guy really wanted to spend 20minutes looking for drugs, he would only have to drive about 4 blocks over the the east part of Winter Garden.

4 blocks from a drug zone, and you're wondering why the search?

 

[EvergreenSVT]

Anytime I remove someone from their vehicle I pat them down for their safety and mine.

Is there caselaw since Terry allowing for a pat down without articulable suspicion that the individual is armed?

 

[thepizz]

I am out of town for the week and got the call from my wife about what had happened. The wife was irate! The friends dad was also pretty bent about it. I know that everyone thinks their girls are angels, but I would bet you my cobra that my girl did not have any pot on her. She she is not even dating yet and spends most of here time volunteering at church function. So, just for the sake of this discussion pleae let's just assume that there was NO pot in or near the car!! Any advice??

The highlighted part made me lol. You are a bit outta touch with reality buddy. And you calling the cop a "clown/pervert" is a :nono:. I understand your anger but that won't get you any sympathy votes on here or help your case. I have a feeling this thread is headed somewhere...

 

[caveeagle]

Thanks for the thoughtfull responses:

Heres my reaction...

Anytime I remove someone from their vehicle I pat them down for their safety and mine.

I have been pulled over many times over the years and NEVER received a 'pat down'. So, yea, I question why two teenage girls get a pat down. No drugs were found!! None were present. No doubt!

Re: 4 blocks from a high crime area.
>Welcome to Florida, Downtown Winter Garned is a nice quite clean area with a few shops and restaurants. The girls were meeting friends there for pizza. It also happens to be less than a mile from zander park, which is right next to a pretty rough neighborhood, where lots of questionable activities go on regularly. I know this, because we volunteer their regularly helping our underprivleged kids.

>I have no delusions about typical activities of most teenagers. We have firm ground rules and I follow up on what I expect. I would ask you to respect my assertion, that these girls were NOT buying or looking for drugs.

My point was, that if this cop was really tring to seek out drug users, why not drive over to zander park. You couldn't get a narc dog to stop triggering over there !!

Personally, I think harassing a couple teenage girls like this just rediculous.

 

[RDJ]

except it was not harassment.

Thanks for the thoughtfull responses:

Heres my reaction...


I have been pulled over many times over the years and NEVER received a 'pat down'. So, yea, I question why two teenage girls get a pat down. No drugs were found!! None were present. No doubt!

Re: 4 blocks from a high crime area.
>Welcome to Florida, Downtown Winter Garned is a nice quite clean area with a few shops and restaurants. The girls were meeting friends there for pizza. It also happens to be less than a mile from zander park, which is right next to a pretty rough neighborhood, where lots of questionable activities go on regularly. I know this, because we volunteer their regularly helping our underprivleged kids.

>I have no delusions about typical activities of most teenagers. We have firm ground rules and I follow up on what I expect. I would ask you to respect my assertion, that these girls were NOT buying or looking for drugs.

My point was, that if this cop was really tring to seek out drug users, why not drive over to zander park. You couldn't get a narc dog to stop triggering over there !!

Personally, I think harassing a couple teenage girls like this just rediculous.

 

[SonicDTR]

Suspicious van, near a known drug area, with two teenagers driving(male or female) would seem like reasons enough to suspect the drivers of having drugs/alcohol.

Angels or not, they are teenagers, and teenagers commonly use drugs and/or alcohol.

 

[ford_racer]

Thanks for the thoughtfull responses:

Heres my reaction...


I have been pulled over many times over the years and NEVER received a 'pat down'. So, yea, I question why two teenage girls get a pat down. No drugs were found!! None were present. No doubt!

Re: 4 blocks from a high crime area.
>Welcome to Florida, Downtown Winter Garned is a nice quite clean area with a few shops and restaurants. The girls were meeting friends there for pizza. It also happens to be less than a mile from zander park, which is right next to a pretty rough neighborhood, where lots of questionable activities go on regularly. I know this, because we volunteer their regularly helping our underprivleged kids.

>I have no delusions about typical activities of most teenagers. We have firm ground rules and I follow up on what I expect. I would ask you to respect my assertion, that these girls were NOT buying or looking for drugs.

My point was, that if this cop was really tring to seek out drug users, why not drive over to zander park. You couldn't get a narc dog to stop triggering over there !!

Personally, I think harassing a couple teenage girls like this just rediculous.

Adam (FordSVTfan) said anytime he removes someone from the vehicle he searches them, not anytime they are pulled over. There's a difference.

There was no harassment involved. Your daughter consented to a search, and she was patted down to make sure she had nothing to harm the officers while they were conducting the search. Consent > harassment.

To be honest, the only thing your wife should be livid with is that you two haven't explained your daughter's rights to her.

Tell your daughter that she can decline a search, and that they can't do anything until they get a search warrant to do so, whether from seeing something inside the car or having a dog hit on it. Problem solved.

 

[Drazga]

Sorry for baking out the van with your daughter and the friend. I look forward to meeting you.

 

[caveeagle]

Suspicious van, near a known drug area, with two teenagers driving(male or female) would seem like reasons enough to suspect the drivers of having drugs/alcohol.

Angels or not, they are teenagers, and teenagers commonly use drugs and/or alcohol.

So, having a tail light out makes it suspicious? And 'near' is a relative term. It is very possible to have a nice quiet shopping area 1/2 a mile from crack-town. You take a wrong turn, and find yourself in a bad area.

So, what would have happened if they had refused the search? Would you tell your daughter to refuse a search if she had nothing to hide? Could she refuse the search once she realized that she must submit to the pat-down?

I think she felt intimidated and thought she would get in more trouble if shel told the guy no. I am really sorry if I an offending anyone here, but I am getting more pissed of by the minute on this one! I pay my freakin taxes and do my best to obey the laws. Cops are here to 'protect and to serve' right! I am sorry, but I just don't buy that this guy was really worried about these girls being a threat!! I am sorry!!! That is just BS.

 

[caveeagle]

Also, I would apprecite is it responders would identify their source of experience on this. (respectfully)

I would like to know what some good honest cops think about this. I really don't care what the average 'joe' thinks about the typical teenager.

 

[SonicDTR]

So, having a tail light out makes it suspicious? And 'near' is a relative term. It is very possible to have a nice quiet shopping area 1/2 a mile from crack-town. You take a wrong turn, and find yourself in a bad area.

So, what would have happened if they had refused the search? Would you tell your daughter to refuse a search if she had nothing to hide? Could she refuse the search once she realized that she must submit to the pat-down?

I think she felt intimidated and thought she would get in more trouble if shel told the guy no. I am really sorry if I an offending anyone here, but I am getting more pissed of by the minute on this one! I pay my freakin taxes and do my best to obey the laws. Cops are here to 'protect and to serve' right! I am sorry, but I just don't buy that this guy was really worried about these girls being a threat!! I am sorry!!! That is just BS.

I didnt intend to offend you. I'm speaking from my experience as being a teenager myself, and honestly I was a pretty good kid. But I think it is still reasonable to pull over a van for bad taillight and proceed to ask if you can search the vehicle. I know as a teenager I would of consented out of not knowing any better, and not having anything to hide. If the officer didnt actually grope her, then a search seems reasonable to me, but I understand your concern as a parent.

*edit* You've asked for LEO-only, so this will be my last reply in here, unless you say otherwise.