99 Cobra Vortech chip problems

[Dagwood]

Looking for any advise I can get here. Thanks in advance.

I have a 99 cobra with a vortech V2 sq "kit" from vortech, (now charge cooler). THe only other performance mod I have is a FR500 cat back. I am getting between 410 and 425 rwhp.

My problem is the tuning or chip. With the chip vortech supplied (autologic) the car runs rich and after a 100 miles or so the check engine light comes on due to rich condition (polution related). I am also reading 65 PSI of fuel pressure at idle. I'm also getting p-poor milage I cant get better than around 12mpg.

We tried a JMS chip and lost 50 hp. Sent it back to be re-burned and same thing, lost 50 hp and ran really poor, surging etc (no detonation) However with the jms chip the fuel pressure says around 40 until heavy acceleration. I have noticed the fuel pressure bounces alot (38-45) very nervous acting.

With no chip the fuel pressure sits pretty still at 38 at idle.

Does anyone else have this setup on a 99 newer cobra (returnless fuel). If so, how is you milage and fuel pressure?:shrug:

 

[GR8WHITE]

Your fuel pressure should stay pretty consistent unless the car is under load (acceleration/boost) Did Vortech ask for your computer calibration code. It should be on the passenger door frame, a little sticker. Sometimes the ECM has a little change in it that isn't accounted for. That is just weird with both chips doing that though. What was Vortech's solution to the continued problem? Have you changed or regapped your plugs?

The only sure fire way I think this could be solved is to have the car dyno tuned. Whoever the programer is will adjust all the necessary parameters while the car is under load, normal driving conditions, etc.

 

[Dagwood]

Vortech just called and told me to send the chip back to them again. I also sent them the dyno sheet the last time they had the chip. I havent done anyting with the plugs. I just checked one last night and it looked clean gapped at about .050. The plug looked rather worn, only 13000 on the car, however I must admit I don't know what a new stock plug for this engine looks like. Generally it looked OK.

Good suggestion on the ECM, they didnt ask for the code. However I'm pretty sure when the unit was first installed the shop sent the whole ECM to Vortech. At any rate I will make sure I send this information to them. Since this is a 99, when it had the "fix" done the computer was also re flashed. I wonder if Vortech takes that into consideration.

I also talked to the folks at Steeda. Although they dont do tuning on Cobras (don't know whats wrong with those folks) the guy told me they do a fuel pump conversion that provides a flexible fuel pressure needed for the returnless fuel systems. $400, still thinking about that.

I have also considered the dyno tuning. THat will probably be next but I want to be sure there isnt something else wrong first.

 

[akatherazor4]

Before you blow you motor up or go crazy from getting bad chip tunes let me try and help. First of all discontinue any mail order dealings with JMS.:nono: When I put my blower on they sent me 6 different tunes and all them were horrible. Same as you Surging, bucking, rich, down on horsepower. I don't mean to speak bad on them, but it's the truth.

Now you need to get your car to a good tuner with a dyno and a/f capabilities. The tunes that come from Vortech are pig rich and they leave tons of horsepower on the table. Next you need to get some NGK TR-6 plugs and gap them around .35. Lastly and most importantly you need to upgrade your fuel system. Go with an 03 cobra fuel pump at minimum. If you can afford the 03 cobra fuel tank as well that will also help.

Good luck,
Razor.:beer:

 

[Dagwood]

I agree; the JMS chip is history. It was suggested by Vortech through my performane shop. I am having the shop return it and I expect a refund since it never worked right. Now I am back working with Vortech to get a workable chip. After all, they sold me the complete system with chip; it should work properly and they do warranty their system. :bash:

After I get the Vortech chip working right (correct fuel pressure at idle and under boost,) I will then work on new options. Specifically a dyno tune as you suggest. The shop I go to, "Street Stuff" in Addison Il, has told me they are working a deal to do their own tuning on their dyno, but they are dealing with JMS. I don't think I want anything else to do with JMS hardware or software. So I'm looking at other options. :cuss:

As for the fuel pump. I'm using the pump that came with the Vortech system. THe paperwork indicates it is a 8F101-260. Also I noticed in the Vortech book they "stongly recommend" NGK#4177 or Autolite#764 plugs for "OFF ROAD APPLICATIONS".

Is this fuel pump proper with the the supplied 42 lb injectors and what is the deal with the plugs. Are the NGK/Autolite plugs running cooler or hotter, and which is better for the enging? :??:

Thanks :burnout:

 

[Dagwood]

I was just looking at the Ford manual and parts list, they show the 03 Cobra using the same fuel pump as the 99/01. Do you have a part # for the 03. What is the differnence

 

[akatherazor4]

Originally posted by Dagwood
I was just looking at the Ford manual and parts list, they show the 03 Cobra using the same fuel pump as the 99/01. Do you have a part # for the 03. What is the differnence

The 03 pump is different, I have it in my car. The pump vortech supplied is junk in my opinion. If you run short on fuel at anytime then say goodbye to your motor. The part # for the 03 pump is 2R3Z-9H307-AA . The difference in the 03 pump is it's actually a twin pump and can flow much more fuel consistantly then the 99/01 unit.

What you need to do is find an experienced tuner in your area. That is the single most important step in getting your snake rolling at 100%. The chip you use does not matter, it's the tuner who does. Whatever he tunes best with (Autologic/Diablo/Superchip/ Flashing the PCM) then that's what you need to use. Stick with either NGK TR-6 plugs or cross reference them in Autolite if you prefer those better.

Razor.

 

[Dagwood]

Thanks for the help. I'm on vacation for the nxt week. I'll let you know what happens and im sure ill be back for more advise.

 

[akatherazor4]

Originally posted by Dagwood
Thanks for the help. I'm on vacation for the nxt week. I'll let you know what happens and im sure ill be back for more advise.

Hey no problem at all. Anything I can do to help out a fellow snake owner is my pleasure. Good luck to you.

Razor.

 

[GR8WHITE]

Originally posted by akatherazor4
... Next you need to get some NGK TR-6 plugs and gap them around .35...
Razor.:beer:

I agree 120%! This is one of the biggest problems I've seen. The stock electronics aren't that great, and under boost can sometimes allow the spark to actually be blown out. Whether you go Autolites 764 (not sure of the part number), NGK TR-6 part # 2238, or Motorcraft AWSF22C which is the reference part number you need. Gap them at .035 as earlier stated. Then have the shop you used either pay for or give you a discounted rate for a dyno tune since they did not fix the problem. They sold and installed your SC. They should ensure it is tuned properly, especially if they care about their reputation. A happy customer tells his friends, an unhappy customer tells the world. ;-)

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Maximus67]

Dagwood,

You may remember me ... I was at Woodridge with the blown black 99 Cobra. I was recently at a dynotune, which is the only way to go I might add, and the first thing they had me change were the plugs. I just went with the Motorcraft awsf22c gapped at .35. If fordchip.com comes back, try to have your dynotune done with them. I did not get a chip since I don't race my car. They work mainly with Diablo. With their tune, I'm pushing 447 to the wheels, and I think I have the exact same set-up as you. I have the Vortech fuel pump, too. Will upgrade to the 03 pump later on. Good luck.

 

[Dagwood]

Thanks for all the great advise. I hope to get the opportunity to use the fordchip guys to do a tune for me. I intend to get a refund from JMS chips since this chip NEVER worked right. My nex stop is the plugs. Does any one know what the difference is with the recommended plugs? Cooler ? Hotter? Im trying to figure out why the plugs would make a difference.

I also looked up a fuel pump from Gene Evans Ford. When I search for the part # that "akatherazor4" provided it lists a fuel sending unit for $377. WHen I do a search for a 03 cobra fuel pump it lists the same pump/sender as a 01 cobra for $277. It looks like a problem with their computer

At any rate can I just replace the vortech pump with this one. WIll it fit and all connections fit or will I need to fabricate something.

And last of all what type of mpg are you guys getting. I'm lucky to get 12-13 even when I'm not getting on it alot. I assumed it was the 42lb injectors. The car seems faster even when not in boost than it was stock. :-D

 

[akatherazor4]

Originally posted by Dagwood
Thanks for all the great advise. I hope to get the opportunity to use the fordchip guys to do a tune for me. I intend to get a refund from JMS chips since this chip NEVER worked right. My nex stop is the plugs. Does any one know what the difference is with the recommended plugs? Cooler ? Hotter? Im trying to figure out why the plugs would make a difference.

I also looked up a fuel pump from Gene Evans Ford. When I search for the part # that "akatherazor4" provided it lists a fuel sending unit for $377. WHen I do a search for a 03 cobra fuel pump it lists the same pump/sender as a 01 cobra for $277. It looks like a problem with their computer

At any rate can I just replace the vortech pump with this one. WIll it fit and all connections fit or will I need to fabricate something.

And last of all what type of mpg are you guys getting. I'm lucky to get 12-13 even when I'm not getting on it alot. I assumed it was the 42lb injectors. The car seems faster even when not in boost than it was stock. :-D

If you are going ot use the 03 pump in the 01 tank then modifications will be needed. I reccomend you have this done by someone familiar with the swap. If you will be using the 03 tank and pump togeather then everything will bolt up fine.

When it comes to MPG on my car, who knows really. If I had any concerns about that I would have never supercharged my car. I would guess it get's somewhere in the low 20's though.

Razor.:beer:

 

[Maximus67]

Different plugs should make it a little cooler. I was told that, with stock plugs, the boost blows out the spark. Having them gapped tighter will resolve that. MPG? Highway, I get about 21-22. City, about 17.

 

[juicedgt02]

This is not a flame, but fordchip had dynotuned my car. I have received the flip chip the second side was for a 125 shot. Simce day one side 2 hasn't performed at all. The first time when switched to side 2 the car would choke and not run, I have contacted them and send the chip back. After a month I get it back side 1 just like before works like a charm "I love it" but side 2 again is not working the car boggs in 3rd and 4th gear not sure what the problem is. will contact them again today. Any thoughts?:read: :shrug:

 

[GR8WHITE]

I know there is a learning process for some of the "flip chips". Meaning an actual cycle of events that you have to perform to set the chip up. Not sure if you did this, it was even necessary, or the chip supplier claims it was already done by them. Like I said not real sure, just taking shots here.

 

[juicedgt02]

I know there is a learning process for some of the "flip chips". Meaning an actual cycle of events that you have to perform to set the chip up.

Not sure what you mean, maybe you could explain a lil more. But when I had the car dynotuned they installed it and I watched them, figured it might come handy someday. And when I got my 2nd chip I did the same thing as they did. I have switched to side 2 and than reset the car and it still does the same.

 

[juicedgt02]

ttt

 

[Dagwood]

Got my chip back from Vortech and this one works much better. My fuel pressure at idle is around 30 and responds well to accelerationl. The engine is also running smooth again.

The JMS chip never ran right. Missing, power cut out, fuel pressure jumping all over; I dont know how they stay in business, does anyone get a good chip from them?:burn:

My next move is to get the new plugs and gap them at 35 then work on the fuel pump issue. Then finally a good dyno tune when I find someone I can trust. Whew, I though this was all suppose to be done with the install. Of course this makes it all the more fun.

:rolling:

Thanks again for the help, I'm not done yet!:beer:

 

[GR8WHITE]

Originally posted by juicedgt02
Not sure what you mean, maybe you could explain a lil more. But when I had the car dynotuned they installed it and I watched them, figured it might come handy someday. And when I got my 2nd chip I did the same thing as they did. I have switched to side 2 and than reset the car and it still does the same.

A buddy of mine installed a JMS flip chip on his N2O car. There is a process that you have to go through for it to learn the EEC's program. You have to start on the test program and then progress through the different programs on a series of drive cycles.There is also a learning period for the EEC once mods have been done. First few days it will adjust to the new parameters. I'll check with Darren and get more particulars.