12 year veteran of the internet weighs in on the FPC

[johnny-longtors]

I thought this was funny.

 

[AustinSN]

Interesting read.

But at the end of the day Ford made a more powerful, larger engine that weighs less than the current coyote. Didn't Raj say they came up with 30 different ways to balance the engine vibrations and some of them proprietary to Ford? I wonder if they learned anything they can apply to other engines.

I kind of expect these heads to sit on top of a 2017/18 Mustang GT with spray liners to roll around with the Camaro. More or less a Voodoo without the FPC.

 

[Troponin]

Interesting read.

But at the end of the day Ford made a more powerful, larger engine that weighs less than the current coyote. Didn't Raj say they came up with 30 different ways to balance the engine vibrations and some of them proprietary to Ford? I wonder if they learned anything they can apply to other engines.

I kind of expect these heads to sit on top of a 2017/18 Mustang GT with spray liners to roll around with the Camaro. More or less a Voodoo without the FPC.

The author mentioned that. His point was, Ford did amazing things with the Voodoo motor, and there are lots of great, innovative things about it, but Ford made the flat crank out to be what was so great about it.

I am waiting to see what Ford does with the 2017s and 2018s as well. Depending on what they do, I very well could rid myself of the 2014 for the 2018. If it's a big hp FI platform, it could be a pretty wicked set up from the factory with lots of potential.

 

[SID297]

He's not wrong.

 

[johnny-longtors]

He's not wrong.

I dunno - while the entire engine has a lot of advancements I don't think the FPC was wholly unnecessary in a NA mill. Ford promised 100HP/liter NA when the modular was introduced in 1995 - seems it didn't happen until this design.

 

[ZYBORG]

Damn, guy KILLED it!

Great article.

 

[5 DOT 0]

He's not wrong.

Yep and Ford was rumored to have tested the Boss motor to 9,000 RPM's. I'd bet a CPC 5.2L Coyote could have also eclipsed 100 HP per liter.

 

[AustinSN]

It would be cool to see a back to back comparison of this engine with both style cranks.

Sid can you track down any information on how much extra power this engine made with the preferred exhaust pulses and lighter rotating assembly? From the engineers?

 

[Tob]

Interesting read.

Didn't Raj say they came up with 30 different ways to balance the engine vibrations and some of them proprietary to Ford?

It was mentioned by a number of people at Ford. To date we really haven't seen a thorough breakdown of each "way" but then again I can understand Ford's position on sharing specific data related to this.

..the most significant downside of a flat-plane crank is that they generate some very severe and potentially destructive secondary vibrations. By definition, these vibrations are produced twice per engine revolution opposed to a primary vibrations that occurs just once per revolution.

Ford’s solution was fitting the engine with a revised crank damper and a dual-mass flywheel to quell vibrations, and stiffening up the block, accessory brackets, and exhaust system to survive the vibrations. Other measures may or may not have been taken, but Ford is remaining hush-hush.

I don't believe that Ford is being "hush-hush" but rather nobody is pressing them (in the right way) for ample detail. For example, I've had a number of discussions with a few that are deep into the mix shall we say, about the TR3160 as used in the S550. Ford made a number of unique changes to the transmission for this application. One of the things I've noticed that hasn't been talked about are the mass dampers that are bolted to the rear of the transmission/crossmember. They are not present on the 5.0 Coyote engine/MT82 transmission as used in the GT model. These were in plain sight at the Sebring Track Tour event that Editor Turner attended and anyone that was so inclined could have asked about them. How many are willing to bet that not a single peep was uttered from the peanut gallery as they glossed right over them? Note the exhaust system dampers as well, which look very similar to hardware that was used on other Ford models such as this 5.4 equipped "E" series van (again, photos below are of the GT350).

In the context of lightweighting every single component possible on this vehicle but having to add weight back in to address resonant frequencies, is of definite interest and directly related to some of the subject matter in Kim's article. I should have much of this hardware in hand in a week or so and look forward to a much closer inspection than simple photos can provide.

I can’t help but feel bad for the engineers at Ford getting snubbed by all this flat-plane nonsense. Someone at Ford designed some badass CNC-ported cylinder heads for the new 5.2L, but no one’s talking about that. Someone at Ford designed the F1-inspired roller finger follower DOHC valvetrain that makes OE pushrod motors look stupid, but no one’s talking about that. Someone at Ford designed the camshaft profiles and a variable valve-timing strategy that—when combined with the phenomenal low-lift airflow of the 5.2L’s four-valve cylinder heads—enables it to produce 24-percent more torque per cubic inch than GM’s 7.0L LS7 (1.36 vs. 1.10), but no one’s talking about that. All of these factors play a far more substantial role in both the 5.2L’s specific output and high-rpm capability than its flat-plane crank, but no one’s talking about that.

I respectfully disagree Mr Kim. Nobody was snubbed and everything you mentioned has indeed been talked about.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?1073148-Voodoo-Child


OP, thanks for finding and posting this article up.

 

[F8L SN8K]

Yep and Ford was rumored to have tested the Boss motor to 9,000 RPM's. I'd bet a CPC 5.2L Coyote could have also eclipsed 100 HP per liter.

The Boss was tested to 8,000rpm with occasional 8,400rpm reached. There was a 5.2 cross plane crank certified for 150k miles at 8250rpm. And it certainly made the magical 100hp per liter mark.

 

[GT Premi]

Because Ferrari, pal. That's all that matters.

 

[SID297]

It would be cool to see a back to back comparison of this engine with both style cranks.

Sid can you track down any information on how much extra power this engine made with the preferred exhaust pulses and lighter rotating assembly? From the engineers?

I've talked about this very subject with quite a few Ford engineers. At the end of the day I had them agreeing with my idea for a unique engine for SVT. I'm betting it'll never see the light of day though.

 

[93 347 Cobra]

So accelerating an engine faster and taking weight off the front-end is a bad thing?

 

[Snorman]

Ford made a number of unique changes to the transmission for this application. One of the things I've noticed that hasn't been talked about are the mass dampers that are bolted to the rear of the transmission/crossmember. They are not present on the 5.0 Coyote engine/MT82 transmission as used in the GT model. These were in plain sight at the Sebring Track Tour event that Editor Turner attended and anyone that was so inclined could have asked about them. How many are willing to bet that not a single peep was uttered from the peanut gallery as they glossed right over them? Note the exhaust system dampers as well, which look very similar to hardware that was used on other Ford models such as this.

Actually, those mass dampers were specifically mentioned by Ford during our evolution at the display car during the Sebring Track Tour on Monday. I can't recall his name, but a Ford marketing-type who was pretty well versed on the engineering behind the car noted that they were there to counter high rpm vibrations as a result of the new architecture of the engine.
S.

 

[DukeNukem1]

2015 hold up

I heard a rumor from a buddy of mine that goes to many different track events that the reason behind the 2015 late release is that some part of the oil system is vibrating loose......anyone else hear about this?

 

[SID297]

I heard a rumor from a buddy of mine that goes to many different track events that the reason behind the 2015 late release is that some part of the oil system is vibrating loose......anyone else hear about this?

Has nothing to do with the release date. If anything it was unexpectedly early.

 

[Tob]

Actually, those mass dampers were specifically mentioned by Ford during our evolution at the display car during the Sebring Track Tour on Monday. I can't recall his name, but a Ford marketing-type who was pretty well versed on the engineering behind the car noted that they were there to counter high rpm vibrations as a result of the new architecture of the engine.
S.

Well sumbitch. Good to hear they were proactive about it because I gotta say, the "fix" is pretty darn substantial.

 

[F8L SN8K]

People will need to be very careful as to what weights/dampeners they remove from the car. They had issues with the car shutting down because it would vibrate the starter loose.

 

[Voltwings]

Ehh, if we all just stick to using basic pushrod motors then nothing ever comes of trying to push the envelope. Even if this car turns out to be a 100% total flop, i am happy Ford is at least pushing the envelope and you can bet a V2 will hit the market even better. This is progress, it takes time, it takes patience, and most importantly it takes trial and error. Hopefully Ford took care of most, if not all, of that before the car makes its way to the market but there is always room for improvement.