12' GT500 tuning question

[Poppacapp]

I currently have 13' TVS, 65mm tb/elbow, 2.67 oem tvs pulley @ 15psi.
I am still on stock injectors, and stock maf/coldair.

I did a couple of datalogs the other day to log some IAT2's (since I found out we can log them... doh!).

One thing I am noticing, and need to know if this means the injectors or MAF are maxxing out:

At 5700rpm, MAF frequency is pegging at 10.0(i assume 10000hz?) and staying there till redline.

Also, fuel pump percentage slowly climbs to 50% and stays at 50 until redline(is this the max? or is 100% max?) it hits 50% @ exact same time 5700rpm as the MAF pegging.

I did not see a fuel injector pulse width pid to select when I made the config file.. but need to check again.

Spark advance seems to stay within range without timing being pulled. With the exception of a 3rd-4th gear pull I did.. IAT2 started at 122f, and ended up at 134f, with 10.5 degrees of spark advance being pulled by the car in 4th gear.. so I assume a dual fan HE is needed.

Hope I was clear enough on my ranting above.. just trying to understand what I am looking at a little better. I want to keep the car in the safe zone. I do plan on MAF/injector upgrade in the very near future though.

 

[fullboogie]

Yes, your FP duty cycle is maxing out very early. You multiply the number by 2, so 50% is 100%!. I would absolutely check injector duty cycle as well. I know every car is different, but with the same setup as you my car was into the high 90% duty cycle for both injectors and fuel pump long before 6,000 rpm. That is very dangerous.

After adding a BAP and 72's, my numbers are much better - mid to high 80% for most of the time, and creeping into the 90-92% at max rpm. Do a lot of research on injectors, though, and make sure your tuner can/will tune for those injectors. I've struggled to get the 72's to behave on cold warmup, and have given up.

You should look into a KB BAP and some injectors very soon.

 

[Silver_Serpent]

Those numbers/duty cycles are contrary to everything that I have heard about the stock fuel system on a 2011-2012 ... and it has me a little worried also. Also the first I have heard of the stock MAF pegging at 15 psi of boost. Especially confusing because the 2013's run with that supercharger on 15 psi and have the same CAI.
I have a 2.4" pulley on a VMP TVS and stock everything else like you. I have not been on a dyno yet either, or did a datalog. I have a VMP tune (email type).
Hope you get it figured out.

 

[Poppacapp]

Yes, your FP duty cycle is maxing out very early. You multiply the number by 2, so 50% is 100%!. I would absolutely check injector duty cycle as well. I know every car is different, but with the same setup as you my car was into the high 90% duty cycle for both injectors and fuel pump long before 6,000 rpm. That is very dangerous.

After adding a BAP and 72's, my numbers are much better - mid to high 80% for most of the time, and creeping into the 90-92% at max rpm. Do a lot of research on injectors, though, and make sure your tuner can/will tune for those injectors. I've struggled to get the 72's to behave on cold warmup, and have given up.

You should look into a KB BAP and some injectors very soon.

The way I have read, the 11-12's don't need a BAP as soon as the 07-09's because of the overvolt function available on them. Is there a PID I should be able to see on SCT livelink that will give me injector duty cycle? I didn't see it when i config'd the last datalogs.

Those numbers/duty cycles are contrary to everything that I have heard about the stock fuel system on a 2011-2012 ... and it has me a little worried also. Also the first I have heard of the stock MAF pegging at 15 psi of boost. Especially confusing because the 2013's run with that supercharger on 15 psi and have the same CAI.
I have a 2.4" pulley on a VMP TVS and stock everything else like you. I have not been on a dyno yet either, or did a datalog. I have a VMP tune (email type).
Hope you get it figured out.

They have the same maf? Hmm.. I know some 13's are making over 700rwhp with stock maf..so I have to check into that. I am not sure I am reading these logs right.. I sure hope my fuel pump isn't at 100% at only 15psi and 635rwhp range.

 

[fullboogie]

The way I have read, the 11-12's don't need a BAP as soon as the 07-09's because of the overvolt function available on them. Is there a PID I should be able to see on SCT livelink that will give me injector duty cycle? I didn't see it when i config'd the last datalogs.

You have to go with what your logs are telling you - not what you hear on the internet. Your logs are telling you that your FP duty cycle is maxed out, and I'd bet your injectors are close as well. On my car (2007) the PID for injector duty cycle reads something line INJ_DCYCL or something like that. It's obvious once you see it, assuming your 2012 is the same.

I heard the same thing about my setup from various sources - "you should be fine with your stock pumps and injectors." My logs told me otherwise.

 

[Poppacapp]

You have to go with what your logs are telling you - not what you hear on the internet. Your logs are telling you that your FP duty cycle is maxed out, and I'd bet your injectors are close as well. On my car (2007) the PID for injector duty cycle reads something line INJ_DCYCL or something like that. It's obvious once you see it, assuming your 2012 is the same.

I heard the same thing about my setup from various sources - "you should be fine with your stock pumps and injectors." My logs told me otherwise.

The fuel pump going 100% I wouldn't think means its running out of fuel.. just working to keep the pressure up I assume. I will see if I can see an injector duty cycle pid.. but didn't notice one last time. I have heard that the stock injectors on these cars are good for mid 600's without issues. Considering some 2013 56lb injectors to give me some extra headroom since they are so cheap. $22.00 each can't be beat.

I sent my 3rd-4th gear log to my tuner to look at. The only thing I changed since the last tune was gutting the cats. From what I understand, the car can adjust for that no problems.

 

[Silver_Serpent]

You have to go with what your logs are telling you - not what you hear on the internet. Your logs are telling you that your FP duty cycle is maxed out, and I'd bet your injectors are close as well. On my car (2007) the PID for injector duty cycle reads something line INJ_DCYCL or something like that. It's obvious once you see it, assuming your 2012 is the same.

I heard the same thing about my setup from various sources - "you should be fine with your stock pumps and injectors." My logs told me otherwise.

Is it possible that the fuel pumps are "maxing out" in an attempt to supply maximum fuel pressure to the system so that the injectors dont outpace the pump? If you fuel pump is maxed out, and the injetors are 85% ... would that be OK?

 

[Poppacapp]

Is it possible that the fuel pumps are "maxing out" in an attempt to supply maximum fuel pressure to the system so that the injectors dont outpace the pump? If you fuel pump is maxed out, and the injetors are 85% ... would that be OK?

IMO, I would say yes. But I still gotz some learnin' to do.

 

[Sequim Snake]

When you gutted your cats, did you have anything changed in the tune? I had to get a revised tune to turn "cat protection" off. Not sure if that would mess with your fuel, but it's worth a shot. When I logged mine with a similar set up, I was in the high 80%. With stock fuel.

 

[Silver_Serpent]

When you gutted your cats, did you have anything changed in the tune? I had to get a revised tune to turn "cat protection" off. Not sure if that would mess with your fuel, but it's worth a shot. When I logged mine with a similar set up, I was in the high 80%. With stock fuel.

The way I understand it is that cat protection throws extra fuel into the system to cool the cats. That could explain high duty cycles. Anyway, hopefully a tuner or someone who knows will jump in and help explain.

 

[Poppacapp]

When you gutted your cats, did you have anything changed in the tune? I had to get a revised tune to turn "cat protection" off. Not sure if that would mess with your fuel, but it's worth a shot. When I logged mine with a similar set up, I was in the high 80%. With stock fuel.

The way I understand it is that cat protection throws extra fuel into the system to cool the cats. That could explain high duty cycles. Anyway, hopefully a tuner or someone who knows will jump in and help explain.

I don't believe you can turn cat protection off... what people do is turn the rear o2 sensors off in the tune when going catless. My rear o2's were already turned off with my tune when I had the cats on.. so all I did was gut them and good to go. No check engine light.

 

[kozumasbullitt]

While we are on the topic of fuel, do you need to retune after a BAP install? I think I remember seeing my FPDC at 50% but I guess that is 50% x 2 = 100%?

 

[Goose17]

I ran my FR750 Procal tuned 11' on the dyno and dataloged it. The dyno operator told me that I have a fuel delivery issue since my fuel pump duty cycle was hitting 100% early on and flatlining all the way to redline. I sent the info in to Ford Racing and after they looked at the log, they said the car is performing exactly as tuned. The cat protection pumps additional fuel to keep the cats cool and the critical item - commanded air/fuel ration vs. actual air/fuel ratio looked perfect!

 

[Poppacapp]

I ran my FR750 Procal tuned 11' on the dyno and dataloged it. The dyno operator told me that I have a fuel delivery issue since my fuel pump duty cycle was hitting 100% early on and flatlining all the way to redline. I sent the info in to Ford Racing and after they looked at the log, they said the car is performing exactly as tuned. The cat protection pumps additional fuel to keep the cats cool and the critical item - commanded air/fuel ration vs. actual air/fuel ratio looked perfect!

Thanks for the input Goose! I emailed my 3-4 pull datalog to my tuner for him to look at. Will be putting the car on the dyno saturday morning.

 

[RickyBobby]

I am running the same set up on my '11. Sent my dyno datalogs to Justin at VMP and he said everything looked great. Injector duty cycle was high 80's iirc and don't remember fp. Car made 640 rwhp.

 

[Poppacapp]

I am running the same set up on my '11. Sent my dyno datalogs to Justin at VMP and he said everything looked great. Injector duty cycle was high 80's iirc and don't remember fp. Car made 640 rwhp.

Considering 13- GT500's can make upwards of 750rwhp on the stock 56lb injectors, I am considering going with those since I don't plan on going past 750rwhp with my stock bottom end. Less than $200 is hard to beat for a set of injectors. Those, and JLT127 and I shouldn't have any issues at all.

 

[RickyBobby]

Considering 13- GT500's can make upwards of 750rwhp on the stock 56lb injectors, I am considering going with those since I don't plan on going past 750rwhp with my stock bottom end. Less than $200 is hard to beat for a set of injectors. Those, and JLT127 and I shouldn't have any issues at all.

I have been thinking the same thing especially since I plan on going with a 2.4" pulley after suspension mods. Do you know if the '13/14 use the same fuel pump as the '11/12?

 

[VNMOUS1]

Considering 13- GT500's can make upwards of 750rwhp on the stock 56lb injectors, I am considering going with those since I don't plan on going past 750rwhp with my stock bottom end. Less than $200 is hard to beat for a set of injectors. Those, and JLT127 and I shouldn't have any issues at all.

You know where I am. :beer::beer:

Call me before noon today and let's discuss.

You have a couple of different things going on.

(321) 206-9369 x112

 

[1320 Junkie]

Stock pumps with baps can basically support more power than u can make om stock rods
Stock injectors are done at about 670-80 even ramping up all the tables you can and adding pressure. Imo I wouldn't be running the car hard at all until the injectors are addressed as well as pumps or baps.

I run 13 injectors and twin vmp baps...my injectors are very close to maxed at the moment...87% dc....I wouldn't go past 92-93% personally. Stock 13/14 injectors can handle close to 800-820rwhp safely...my street tune makes 755rwhp and race tune is 783 and gave me the 87% reading

 

[1320 Junkie]

While we are on the topic of fuel, do you need to retune after a BAP install? I think I remember seeing my FPDC at 50% but I guess that is 50% x 2 = 100%?

It isn't totally necessary on 11+ cars. Small tweeks can be made though if voltage tables were ramped up to mask a issue.