Yes the new GT500 is really growing on me. I think in person it’ll look even better
10.8@127mph - 4200lbs race weight
- Thread starter PIPO
- Start date
I think Ford should replace the Snake emblem with a Stallion reared up and sporting an enormous erection.
i did the math from self identified posts on the demon/hellcat boards. here is the breakdown of age at time of purchase:
20s 5%
30s 18%
40s 27%
50s 23%
60s 24%
70s 4%
so yes, they tapped into an outdated genre that was willing to pay, and defend to the death, a drag car. for the 51% 50yrs and older, a 9 sec car was literally an all out super special racecar to them. hell, im under 40, when the 99 Lightning and terminators came out, every street racers dream was to run 12s, 12s was fast, 11s was insane, and 10s was a miracle.. hence "you owe me a 10 second car"
all that matters is what happens when 2 owners line up, so dont forget, you and I have $500 bet stock gt500 beats stock demon from a roll
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When the Terminators came out, there were guys that dumped $500 into it and had a 700rwhp monster (which, at the time, was pretty special). The terminators were easily a top 3 tuner car of all time. I'd rank it right there with the Grand Nationals and the Dodge SRT-4 in terms of "upside." Those were all cars that had MASSIVE post dealer potential to increase performance for very little money/effort. Basically you had a baby beast waiting to be let out.
The entire point is that the GT500 will be SOMEWHAT like that, although I think the new motor is much more advanced in terms of how much power and torque it wrings out. Nonetheless, Ford will "detune" it for warranty and reliability purposes. Within a few months, there'll be guys who remove that slack and run an even bigger monster of a car.
The point I was trying to make is that some cars have big upside and big value (i.e. how much car you can end up with for a certain amount of money) and some cars do not. The Hellcat/Demon has VERY LITTLE upside. Why? Because even if you add 200 rwhp to it, it's still a 4500 lb pig.
Now, the one area that I think will greatly diminish the value/upside of the new 500 is the price. My PERSONAL opinion is that Ford will not cannibalize GT350 sales and will not seek to directly compete with that price point. I'm thinking the base GT500 starts at somewhere around $80k+ MSRP (and ends up near the 6 figure mark with ADMs) and the carbon fiber track pack STARTS somewhere near the 6 figure mark (before dealer raping).
IF that's the case, the 500 comes back down to Earth in terms of value. Are you getting a lot of car and potential? Surely. But you're also paying out the ass for it too.
This is why I think IF your goal is to drive a car that goes fast in a straight line, a car like the camaro or the mustang GT is a MUCH MUCH better value than the Mopars. Why? Because you can buy the car, add what you need and at the end of the day, not only have a car that goes FASTER in a straight line, it'll be a car that outperforms in nearly every other category AND it'll cost less to get there (in some cases, MUCH MUCH less).
This is EXACTLY the reason why Mopar guys cling to the word stock. Because as an aftermarket car or an absolute what's the fastest, it can't compete. It HAS to be judged on a "stock" basis for it to retain it's value proposition. Any modding quickly exposes just how overpriced it is for the performance (narrow and one dimensional) you get.
So as not to have their ego and feelings hurt, Mopar guys insist on comparing the car stock v stock. But that's not reality and that's not the street strip. At the end of the race, few people give more than 0.0 ****s whether your car is stock. No one cares whether or not you paid a fortune either, but the point is cars like the camaro and the mustang GT put extreme level performance WITHIN reach of the average Joe. Hellcats and Demons less so and in my opinion, that's the one achilles heel of this whole argument. The GT500 will be a better car, but it will also cost a bloody fortune.
The entire point is that the GT500 will be SOMEWHAT like that, although I think the new motor is much more advanced in terms of how much power and torque it wrings out. Nonetheless, Ford will "detune" it for warranty and reliability purposes. Within a few months, there'll be guys who remove that slack and run an even bigger monster of a car.
The point I was trying to make is that some cars have big upside and big value (i.e. how much car you can end up with for a certain amount of money) and some cars do not. The Hellcat/Demon has VERY LITTLE upside. Why? Because even if you add 200 rwhp to it, it's still a 4500 lb pig.
Now, the one area that I think will greatly diminish the value/upside of the new 500 is the price. My PERSONAL opinion is that Ford will not cannibalize GT350 sales and will not seek to directly compete with that price point. I'm thinking the base GT500 starts at somewhere around $80k+ MSRP (and ends up near the 6 figure mark with ADMs) and the carbon fiber track pack STARTS somewhere near the 6 figure mark (before dealer raping).
IF that's the case, the 500 comes back down to Earth in terms of value. Are you getting a lot of car and potential? Surely. But you're also paying out the ass for it too.
This is why I think IF your goal is to drive a car that goes fast in a straight line, a car like the camaro or the mustang GT is a MUCH MUCH better value than the Mopars. Why? Because you can buy the car, add what you need and at the end of the day, not only have a car that goes FASTER in a straight line, it'll be a car that outperforms in nearly every other category AND it'll cost less to get there (in some cases, MUCH MUCH less).
This is EXACTLY the reason why Mopar guys cling to the word stock. Because as an aftermarket car or an absolute what's the fastest, it can't compete. It HAS to be judged on a "stock" basis for it to retain it's value proposition. Any modding quickly exposes just how overpriced it is for the performance (narrow and one dimensional) you get.
So as not to have their ego and feelings hurt, Mopar guys insist on comparing the car stock v stock. But that's not reality and that's not the street strip. At the end of the race, few people give more than 0.0 ****s whether your car is stock. No one cares whether or not you paid a fortune either, but the point is cars like the camaro and the mustang GT put extreme level performance WITHIN reach of the average Joe. Hellcats and Demons less so and in my opinion, that's the one achilles heel of this whole argument. The GT500 will be a better car, but it will also cost a bloody fortune.
^ agree on all, except base msrp. lots of informed dealerships are telling me 68k.
In other news, im bored as ****, so spent some time trying to ricer math this cars 1/4 potential again.
1. tremecs pdf on available gear ratios
2. Ford actual promo video, showing 1st-2nd gear shift at 7500rpm
Tremecs A version, with a common ford rear, 3.90, with that 325/30/r20 tire size match up perfectly. or B version with 4.10s
know there are drag time calculators out there, all saying what we already know, but the "Car Test" program ( i have but cannot load it) allows for precise vehicle information inputs. hp, weight, trans ratios, launch rpm, dyno plot, 60ft, drag coe, shift speed, etc.
If someone else has that, id like to see what it suggests
In other news, im bored as ****, so spent some time trying to ricer math this cars 1/4 potential again.
1. tremecs pdf on available gear ratios
2. Ford actual promo video, showing 1st-2nd gear shift at 7500rpm
Tremecs A version, with a common ford rear, 3.90, with that 325/30/r20 tire size match up perfectly. or B version with 4.10s
know there are drag time calculators out there, all saying what we already know, but the "Car Test" program ( i have but cannot load it) allows for precise vehicle information inputs. hp, weight, trans ratios, launch rpm, dyno plot, 60ft, drag coe, shift speed, etc.
If someone else has that, id like to see what it suggests
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The value in the phrase “stock” for the mopar is that the average person could go out and buy a hellcat and have all that power and have a warranty and not have to drop an additional dollar into it.
Myself for example, I know well and good I could buy a mustang and put a blower, fuel system, OPG and tune and it would perform just as good or better BUT I’d have to plop down cash for all that extra on top of a 40k car.
Or I just finance a hellcat at a good rate and it’s no huge hit to my liquid cash to make power. Plus since it is stock and problems I dump it off at the dealer and they fix it. I have a feeling many buyers of the hellcat varients feel the same way as me.
Now if a track car was what I wanted, then yea of course I see the value in a mustang GT. I’d sooner go with a used GT350 at that point though.
if you think financing another $40k/5-6-7 yrs is a smart move, sure
$500 got an easy 450whp
Another 40K? New GTs are in the upper 30s almost 40k and a hell cat can be had in the bottom of the 60s, that’s 20k. A blower kit alone is 7K plus for a GT not to mention supporting mods.
Yes I’ll she’ll out the extra happily if I’m getting stupid low interest through my credit union and have all the power and a warranty to cover my ass.
Normal people aren’t buying cars cash these days lets be real. Personally I wouldn’t buy either with out putting 10k plus down so there’s goes a nice chunk of cash up front anyway and then I’m not going to want to dump another 10k cash in mods. Maybe I’m the rarity but I doubt that.
The reality is people are buying new cars then running out and dropping coin on their credit cards to mod them on average.
Again just my opinion there is merit in the hellcat but to each their own.
I think $500 in the days of terminator modding would get you, what? A pulley, dyno tune, and maybe an off-road mid-pipe or CAI? I can see 450rwhp but 700rwhp from that?
Today, its a dumb move NOT to finance a new mustang if youre in the market.
thats great, but what are DEMONS selling for? mod a hellcat sure, but thats not what the internet is claiming for STOCK 9 sec cars, worlds fastest stock car etc
DEMON vs gt.
$700 month for years can do a lot of financial damage or success, depending on how you spend it, hell, same for bottom 30k GT vs bottom 60k hellcat. 30k extra? for what?
The demon, yes is way more.
All I’m speaking to is the value in the market place of the hellcat in general and why it’s still not a bad buy for someone that wants a fun high powered car but doesn’t want to rack up credit card bills or even bother modding a simple street car like mustang to get equal performance from a power standpoint.
We can agree to disagree on that matter. Frankly if I’m spending 80K + I’ll likely land in a gen V viper like I mentioned. If the GT500 by year two can be had for no ADM I’d consider it. Then again it’s hard for me to justify spending that much on either car when it’ll likely sit more often then not. The struggle of this hobby for me and why I got out of track days with my bike in previous years. Free time is such a rare commodity these days, sadly the most I have time for is a cars and coffee even and that’s only because I live a mile away from the one in my area. That’s where the hell cat shows value to me, enough seats for wife and son to come along, no need to mod really, and much more cost friendly then a GT500 and rightfully so as the GT500 likely will have more to offer per dollar even at msrp.
He Had to have met $5,000.
A tune alone is $500 to $1,500.
Pulleys are $150
CAI are $200
Cat Back $800 - $1000
KB BAP $300
And yeah, you got maybe 450whp.
I get so sick of these Anti-Fiance Online Fiancial Wizards.
Yes, rack up to much debt and you'll screw yourself. However, save $70k for 6 years to buy a Truck, Sportscar, whatever and you are just as screwed.
Your now driving presumably the cheapest thing you can, which will require maintence, potentially put your life at risk (older cars are less safe) and your wasting 6 years of your life not doing what you want.
Also, once you have that $60k cash, you'd still be in better financial shape to invest it and fiannance the car.
Also, we have inflation.
So let's go 2013 Gt500. It's 2012 and you really want one. Well you can wait 6 years to save up $55k, but they'll be gone by then and the new Gt500 is now going to be $70-80k, so you'll have to save another 3 or 4 years to get one.. 10 year wait, a decade of your life.
Or you just buy it. $55k of debt in 2012 is equal to $62,000 today with inflation, so you already saved $7,000 there.
If you had financed as the best rate of 3.11% in 2012 you'd have only spent $5,300 on interest in 6 years. So you saved $1,700 by financing instead of paying cash.
So when you are going "OMG $800/month car payment!! Pay cash!!" what you are really saying is "don't own expensive things".
What base $30k GT? A Zero Option GT with Auto is $38,045. A Zero Option Hellcat with Auto is $63,695.
$25,000 difference but the GT lacks a ton of basic features the HC has, so you'd need to toss on a performance pack for another $4k.
So $20k you get a better looking car with significantly more power, a blower and more interior space. Why pay $30k more for a GT350 compared to a GT?
What are you smoking sir. No, you are wrong and should be notified of this mistake.
A pulley was and still is $80-200, a belt is $30, and a handheld programmer is $299-500. That easily can be done for $500.
To further add insult to your proposal, slp had the 575hp package for $1500 with catback, xpipe, handheld, pulley, cai, maf, and stickers. Easily 475whp.
My combo with those type of bolt ons made 476whp on a cold winter day and later 485whp on a hot summer day with additionally an accufab throttle body, spec stage 3+, switch to sct etc.
The internet is now fixed, your welcome for correcting your mistaken accord of the past good sir, no ill will towards your or yours on this lovely Valentine’s Day. Hearts and hugs to you.
Also the KB bap isn’t needed until 550whp. Even ported Eaton’s run stock pumps.
$5k in a terminator can get you an unreliable/unsafe 700whp ie used tvs, bap, 50 dry shot, bolt ons tune
im not sure im following you correctly, are saying it is wise to finance an EXTRA 40k over 7 years at 3.9% ? im not saying dont finance a car, im saying the extra 30-40k (depending on which model) to get a "9 second car)" is ridiculous. be it GT or base challenger, your a retard if your ok with taking on that much debt just to hit 9s streetable.
you dont need a performance pack, because your going to mod it soon anyway. add the tech stuff and your set, 38k
nicely option GT is 38k nicely option hellcat is 76k demon 93k. all can run 9s with some boost and auto and tires. nobody said you had mod the base cars immediately, or if you cant afford to mod it immediately, you probably shouldnt be trying to justify using a CC to get 9s, vs financing 40k over 7 years in either case, and probably why you cant mod the GT/Base car with cash in the 1st place lol
its not like we cant look at the numbers.. 37,750 + 4649 in interest... "but but but, its the boomers generation that screwed us over"
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Haha right? Like I am an svt cobra fanboy but I’m not a nut swinger Hahahhaha.
I read that and said wtf happened to the Internet.
My pulley was $110, belt was $30, dr.gas pipe $240, 2.5” magnaflow catback was $400, diablo programmer came with my car as did a steeda cai.
I felt like an OG with 476whp for ~$750. I was 17 and the hottest shit on the streets until I lost some races to turbo imports then I got and planned a 5.4 with twins, and now have a 5.3 with snails.
That bolt on combo was stupid fun and simple, that’s what the magic was. I like the hellcats because it is the same stupid simplicity, and starts in the 11’s and gets into the deep 10’s for $1000. Drives and feels like my terminator felt like back then.
03 cobra’s were kinda big compared to like 90’s nissans and Honda’s back then. Hell, a Honda Pilot was like 1 ft shorter in height and length back then. A full size sedan was also much smaller.
I buy toys in cash. You guys financing toys will have buyers remorse. Been there, learned from it.
Speed parts are toys. Good news is now that I’m 30, I also buy all my things in cash. Once I pay off business debt and the home, never getting a loan again. Dave Ramsey is right, you’re a slave to the lender, and even with fam turkey dinner doesn’t taste the same when you owe that family member cash.
Buying a car on a loan is great if you want to be close to broke all your life. I know people making 2-3 times what I make and they ask me for money because they are broke. Funny how the conspiracy cash guy has the tech and college guys asking me for money.
Speed parts are toys. Good news is now that I’m 30, I also buy all my things in cash. Once I pay off business debt and the home, never getting a loan again. Dave Ramsey is right, you’re a slave to the lender, and even with fam turkey dinner doesn’t taste the same when you owe that family member cash.
Buying a car on a loan is great if you want to be close to broke all your life. I know people making 2-3 times what I make and they ask me for money because they are broke. Funny how the conspiracy cash guy has the tech and college guys asking me for money.
All true. Add to that my comments which were aimed at the current Mustang deal which is 0% for 72 months and youd be crazy to not finance if your in the market for a car (and can afford it lol).
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