03 Cobra observation-bad cats-please read.

[mjchip]

Re: Chip action

Originally posted by CRZ8R
If JDM or whoever comes out with a different chip tuned for our Terminators then cool. Please broadcast it all over this Bulleting Board. I don't really understand the whole tuning anyway... I thought you needed to put your car on the Dyno to get a chip burned... but someone from another thread said that JDM only needs the number of the sticker on the Drivers side door?? SO for all the laymen like me, pleez share the wealth!

Give it a little time, and I mean "a very little" and you will see all kinds of aftermarket chips for the Terminator. These guys will get really good results but they will always be less-than-optimal if the tune is not done on YOUR specific car and on a DYNO with proper instrumentation (wideband O2, scan tool, pyrometers, etc.). That's just the nature of cookie cutter chips. However, if your car is BONE STOCK, and you get a chip from a good tuner like Jim at JDM or some of the other folks (LaRocca, Lidio, Paul S., Chris J., Mike W., Dennis R., SHM, etc.) it will be DAMNED closed!

The only other down side is if you start modding after the chip you'll need to get a reburn which will cost more money and won't be as close (unless it's done in the shop on your ride).

Cheers,

Mark

 

[mjchip]

Originally posted by a94cobra
When chip makers make a generic chip for a specific vehicle, they simply need the computer codes. They have already taken a similar car, stock no mods, to the dyno and worked out a program. You call them and say, "I have a stock vehicle send me a chip." They send you the generic chip.

On a modified car that has had many changes, these generic chips will be hit and miss. so the best way to have one done here is by using the dyno.

Bingo! :beer:

Mark

 

[mjchip]

Re: autologic chips

Originally posted by docs03
I spoke to Mike Wesley who is the designer of the Autologic chip software that a lot of the tuners use. He related he has software ready for the 03 and there's ALOT of hidden power in these motors. I will be having him tune my car next month on a dyno for a chip when I do the exhaust install. I'll let you guys know what happens.

Yeah, Mike is the Autologic KING. Since you're getting this chip burnt in the shop, it will no doubt be KICK @$$.

Mark

 

[[sky]03cobra]

For you guys in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, Dallasmustang.com will dyno the snake and make a chip for it there.. I believe it was GTto03 that found a dyno up in Lewisville. Hey GTto03 can you advise the name and loc of that place up there.. are they making chips as well??

sky

 

[TIAMAT]

It seems that Fords last good year with the dohc mod motor was 98'. I don't know what the hell is wrong with fords tuners. I have a JDM tuned 01L and i was going to trade it in for a Mach 1. I already ordered the Mach but it looks like i'll be keeping the L. Don't know maybe. I always wanted a dohc cobra motor. Don't want a piece of shit though. Good luck with your cobras. Call JDM if you have any problems.

 

[StreetSnake]

Apparently the loaded Cats are still an issue the dealer caught mine over the week-end before I took delivery of it so there it sits in the shop awaiting new ones from god only knows where and here I sit with nothing to drive except this F*****g computer

 

[mjchip]

Originally posted by TIAMAT
I don't know what the hell is wrong with fords tuners.

Just something to keep in mind: Ford uses some of the very best tuners out there BUT they need to take into account many more variables than if they were doing it aftermarket vs. OEM. Just off the top of my head there are:

1. emissions
2. fuel economy
3. longevity
4. internal politics
5. performance ( and leaving overhead for the aftermarket tuners)
6. time-to-market

The aftermarket tuners need to worry about numbers 3 and 5 at the very worst. The Ford tuners (some of which are consultants....hint, hint) were not "asleep at the wheel" when tuning this car. They had a tough job to do and I'm sure that they did the best they could given all of the constraints. My $0.02 FWIW.

Mark

 

[RED '03]

There is no way the A/F ratio is 9:1. If this was intentional these things wouldn't make crap for power. 10:5 or 11:1 is the richest you can run before the power drops off like a rock not to mention the bore wash problem you will have, meaning shot bores and blue smoke out the tail pipe in 10K miles. The reason for running rich is to keep exh valve durability and keep the cats from overheating. Your best ratio is normally around 12:1 for peak numbers as the fuel helps cool the inlet charge vs the stoich setting.

Also they program the a/f and spark curves for worst case scenarios... as the engine gets older the carbon deposits increase compression ratio and insulate the combustion chamber so the knock sensitivity goes up with mileage and don't forgot those that deal with high inlet temps. With the blower you guys know what too much spark and too lean will do - preignition.

It's been a while but I an trying to remember what I used to know or maybe what I don't.

 

[mjchip]

Originally posted by RED '03
There is no way the A/F ratio is 9:1. If this was intentional these things wouldn't make crap for power. 10:5 or 11:1 is the richest you can run before the power drops off like a rock not to mention the bore wash problem you will have, meaning shot bores and blue smoke out the tail pipe in 10K miles. The reason for running rich is to keep exh valve durability and keep the cats from overheating. Your best ratio is normally around 12:1 for peak numbers as the fuel helps cool the inlet charge vs the stoich setting. <snip>

Look, I hear what you are saying and I agree with the theory but I am telling you, the wideband does not lie. I have seen multiple dyno charts with a/f that show it dipping below 10:1 at high rpms. If you don't believe me, do a search here and on the other boards and you will see them for yourself.

Mark

 

[TIAMAT]

mjchip
The problem is why have they not figured it out yet. The 99's wer all screwed up and there was no 00'. The 01's had tuning issues also. There was no 02' and that's just too much timenot to be fixed. It usually takes about 6 months for ford to issue a tsb on the problems. Ford is just not taking care of their part of the business. I know that for every screwed up dohc car there is 10-20 good ones. But the reliability of these cobras is horseshit. The reliability of any mustang is horrible. If 1 out of 10 has some problems that ratio is horrible. Ford need to hit it big with the new stang. I love mustangs and i want a Mach 1, but i don't want to have one that has problems. I know that there is a warranty on the cars but if i'm in the shop all the time and am afraid to take it on long trips, all the fun is gone.

 

[mjchip]

Originally posted by TIAMAT
mjchip
The problem is why have they not figured it out yet. The 99's wer all screwed up and there was no 00'. The 01's had tuning issues also. There was no 02' and that's just too much timenot to be fixed. It usually takes about 6 months for ford to issue a tsb on the problems. Ford is just not taking care of their part of the business. I know that for every screwed up dohc car there is 10-20 good ones. But the reliability of these cobras is horseshit. The reliability of any mustang is horrible. If 1 out of 10 has some problems that ratio is horrible. Ford need to hit it big with the new stang. I love mustangs and i want a Mach 1, but i don't want to have one that has problems. I know that there is a warranty on the cars but if i'm in the shop all the time and am afraid to take it on long trips, all the fun is gone.

Trust me, I hear what you are saying. In '00 I was looking to buy a Cobra but there was none due to the screw up with the '99s so I bought a Corvette. It had problems also. In '01 I bought a Bullitt and it had tip-in detonation that wouldn't quit and the infamous "death rattle" or piston slap. Quality is big and I want it in my cars too. I was just trying to point out that because the '03 has a lot of "fat" left in it, it doesn't mean that the tuners sucked or were drunk when they tuned the cars. I just wanted to point out to the masses that there MAY have been other reasons for the FAT tune. BTW, I'm glad it's fat because it allows me to make incredible power improvements with simple a/f tuning.

Mark

 

[TIAMAT]

That's exactly what i mean. I could care less what happens to chevy cause im a ford man. I just want to know how the dohc motor ran into the tuning gremlins when it seemed it had so much going for it. It still does but what's the problem?

 

[CRZ8R]

Thanks

Thanks for all the great info... I'll be looking for a company here in Southern California that can do me a chip burn after I modify the exhaust. With all your advice it seems like the best thing to do. Keep CRZNG.

Cheers to the TERMINATOR!
:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

 

[mjchip]

Re: Thanks

Originally posted by CRZ8R
Thanks for all the great info... I'll be looking for a company here in Southern California that can do me a chip burn after I modify the exhaust. With all your advice it seems like the best thing to do. Keep CRZNG.

Cheers to the TERMINATOR!
:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

I recommend:

Superior Automotive Engineering in Anaheim, CA (DiabloSport of Southern CA)

Tuner: Shawn Ellis, [email protected]

Mark

 

[Mowgli]

Originally posted by TIAMAT
That's exactly what i mean. I could care less what happens to chevy cause im a ford man. I just want to know how the dohc motor ran into the tuning gremlins when it seemed it had so much going for it. It still does but what's the problem?

Sorry to interject myself here, but Tiamat, I think you're missing what mjchip is saying (implying).

That is: it wasn't a snafu or gremlin or screw up, but they consciously tuned them high-end rich to be safe. Ergo it was a design decision.

It is arguable wether or not it was a good decision.

But I have to agree with what mjchip implies: it probably wasn't a case of "something that got by em". I beleive it is tuned exactly how they intended.

Heck, just off the top of my head I can come up with literally dozens of plausible reasons why the corporate entity Ford might have told their engineers to tune them as they are. A couple of those reasons have already been offered here.

So ok. Again, sorry to jump in there, but it looked to me like you two were talking past each other.

 

[Randee of the Redwoods]

Just read an email from my eec tuner buddy. He confirms that the tune is lower than 10:1 at 6500 rpm not for the engine, but to keep the cats cool. You hit it right on the nailhead, RED03. I also agree that they were tuned this way for a reason since most owners will never see the high side of 4500 rpm. Well, I did, and it felt good!! I plan to see it again.
My only question now is: if catalytic converters need heat to work(near 1000* operating temps), why would they need to be "cooled off" with a rich fuel curve? To keep the cores from melting?

 

[FINICKY]

to add to his question how will this affect aftermarket cats

 

[jpetre]

They are called speedworks in lewisville and they are a great bunch of guys. I would recommend them over Dallas mustang as DM has horrible customer service and depending on who you talk to is dependent on how much you pay.

I have had two seperate bad dealings with DM, so I would go to SpeedWorks. They are knowledgable and willing to spend time with you on ther dyno.

Good luck!

Speed Works
972-395-9844
414 Holfords Praire Rd.
Suite 1A
www.txspeedworks.com

PS => Don't konw if they burn chips or not!

James P.

 

[Randee of the Redwoods]

Originally posted by FINICKY
to add to his question how will this affect aftermarket cats

My thoughts exactly. Have to wait till I get another reply.