LS2 GTO vs Terminator

[BLUBLLS]

i said ls1s shine at the drag strip.... and yes, gtos shine much more at the strip than a cobra..
here you go again.. i dont give a shit even if it has an auto... cobras are not track cars... i have seen too many run shitty shitty ass times at the track to not believe that..

i also have seen,raced WAY too many fox bodies mustangs with 302/306/347/351s in them and blew their times/doors out of the ****ing water to not believe that... is it easy to make them "fast" or faster than any normal car... yes... is it easy to make them fast? apparently not.. with so many of them running around modded, theres not too many fast ones on the street..
i didnt say it wasnt cheap, i said it wasnt easy.. most people with H/C ls1s have a "fast" street car.... and thats cheap also..

How the heck do you figure a GTO is going to ET better than a Cobra in that scenerio? And I have seen my fair share of cheap fox bodies wooping the piss out of LS1's. Fact is it is much cheaper to build a fast fox

 

[lemons12]

How many GTO's have you ever seen at the track run well? I personally have never seen one faster than mid-11's and that was with a built motor, turbo and a built auto. There was a crew of Goats there, (3 total) representing the range of mods from mild to wild, and none of them were fast.

Please don't think that I am dogging the LS motors. They are great engines capable of wonderful power. But so is the Cobra motor. But let's be fair, the LS has a 61 cubic inch advantage over the Ford. So Ford put a blower on it to make the difference and it worked wonderfully. If you guys wanted a MORE fair comparison, you would need to compare the LS series to the closest NA motor (C.I. wise) that Ford has which would be the 5.4 in the Cobra R. But Ford wins, and you wouldn't admit it. The fact is a Cobra and GTO cost about the same and the Cobra comes with a blower and a very stout engine. Advantage Cobra from the git-go. Obviously whom ever has a bigger wallet will inevitably be the victor. I could buy a GTO and put 100K in it to beat anything, but if I had 100K, why would I buy a GTO?

Most people who are atypical "my car dick is bigger than yours" type of guys can NOT admit defeat. They will always come up with an excuse why they got beat. My car this, the track that...it's all bull sh*t. I'll tell you what though, you find the fastest (street driven) GTO you can find anywhere...find out the total $$$ invested and I will find a Cobra with equal $$$ invested, and see who comes out on top. I'd put money on the Cobra every time. Now of course one race wouldn't settle it because the losing driver of course would make excuses, so I say let them race best of 7...to be fair.

In the long run the GTO was the original muscle car back in the day. I will give it that, but the new GTO is nothing more than LS2 in a grand prix. It's a grocery getter now. That's only my opinion, just like I know there are plenty of Cobra haters out there.

i have seen plenty with H/C bolt ons running high 7s.. that would put them at a high 11.... MUCH farther away than a built turbo motor.. there was also one at the track last night... didnt get to see him run though.. id guess itd be somewhere around mid high 4s... :lol: (no im not joking... the parachute etc. kinda gave it away...):rockon:

no doubt ford was VERY smart in going FI.. im not one of the ls boys that thinks that was "cheating"... cause honestly to me, it has never been an issue.. i have not been threatened by any cobra, and honestly doubt i will ever be..
isnt the cobra R a gutless drag car basically? excuse my ignorance if not.. not too knowledgeable on them. i think there was a TON of weight taken out of them..

stock for stock, the cobra definitely has an advantage.. but from my experience.... 2k$ later... the advantage goes to the GTO (ls1 etc)..

i can admit defeat.. i just wont settle for it..

that comparison would be endless... reason is what you consider "streetable" or "street driven" me, you, and the owners might totally disagree on... thats an impossible comparison to make..
i DD an ms4 cam with 4k stall 410s exhaust before axle with 1 chambers etc etc etc... most people on this board probably wouldnt stand for that.. i like it, along with PLENTY of people on tech.... but that means nothing..

again, where have i made it look like i hate the cobra... i agree with a lot of things being said.. im just bakcing the ls1 platform, as you guys are the cobra platform.. seems to me though, you guys are being naive about how many cobras out there have horrible times...

do this little test.. go to this sites "drag section" and techs "drag section".... see how many people are saying "why cant i get XXXX times" "should i be going much faster" "450rwhp and 12s" "bolt on ls1 threatening me in my pullied cobra"... there will be MUCH more here... i have been paying attention, and taken part in some of the discussion..

 

[91frppgt]

my experience with ls2 gto's...my car bone stock, with 700 miles - we went from a dig and 40. a dig, i stayed ahead till 80 then he started coming slowly around. From a 40, it was about even till 80, then same result. Then after I got my car tuned, still stock otherwise (intake and exhaust stock) raced the same 6spd car and the outcome was way different. Dig race i stayed about 1 1/2 car ahead, and the 40 race i stayed 1 1/2 to 2 cars. He ran a 13.40@104 to my [email protected] after my car was tuned, and i have a 07 gt a5....

 

[lemons12]

How the heck do you figure a GTO is going to ET better than a Cobra in that scenerio? And I have seen my fair share of cheap fox bodies wooping the piss out of LS1's. Fact is it is much cheaper to build a fast fox

i would gifure an ls1 will ET better than a cobra in almost any FAIR comparison... why, because i see too many cobras running shameful times (like last night).. and seen too many people posting on here about it..

yes i have seen plenty of fast foxs too.. and beating ls1s... but MAJORITY of the time.. a H/C ls1 and a H/C fox.. the ls1 wins.. why? not because either one is more cheap.. but it is easier to "slap on" a given setup on an ls1 and be fast... than to "slap on" a given setup on a fox and be fast..
if you dont know/understand this.. you need to get into the drag/street racing world a little more often and get some experience under your belt..

 

[lemons12]

my experience with ls2 gto's...my car bone stock, with 700 miles - we went from a dig and 40. a dig, i stayed ahead till 80 then he started coming slowly around. From a 40, it was about even till 80, then same result. Then after I got my car tuned, still stock otherwise (intake and exhaust stock) raced the same 6spd car and the outcome was way different. Dig race i stayed about 1 1/2 car ahead, and the 40 race i stayed 1 1/2 to 2 cars. He ran a 13.40@104 to my [email protected] after my car was tuned, and i have a 07 gt a5....

that about right.. nice runs man!:burnout:

 

[BLUBLLS]

i would gifure an ls1 will ET better than a cobra in almost any FAIR comparison... why, because i see too many cobras running shameful times (like last night).. and seen too many people posting on here about it..

yes i have seen plenty of fast foxs too.. and beating ls1s... but MAJORITY of the time.. a H/C ls1 and a H/C fox.. the ls1 wins.. why? not because either one is more cheap.. but it is easier to "slap on" a given setup on an ls1 and be fast... than to "slap on" a given setup on a fox and be fast..
if you dont know/understand this.. you need to get into the drag/street racing world a little more often and get some experience under your belt..

Again, this thread is about a GTO and the Cobra. Not the lighter Fbod and Corvette. Please stay on topic.

When did I ever say that you keep the small block in the fox body? ;-)

 

[lemons12]

Again, this thread is about a GTO and the Cobra. Not the lighter Fbod and Corvette. Please stay on topic.

When did I ever say that you keep the small block in the fox body? ;-)

goes the same for an ls1 gto.. same engines.. different body.. and it doesnt make that much of a difference.

i just figured we were since we were talking cheap...

that case, how many 347s in foxs you see run with 408s in fbodys...
i use those two cause they are most common imo...
not very many at all..

 

[memach1]

I have had encounters with ls2 gtos and all I can say is I am not impressed. From a 35mph roll I had 2 cars on him until we let off. From a dig you can ell that it is heavy because I left him by 4 and he pulled me back in to 1 car when we let off. Both times we went till 100mph. Oh and by the way this was with a mach1 with a n/a 5.0 stroker(stock cams and heads),full exhaust, and intake. The Gto had catback and intake.


EDIT* this was about 2.5 years ago and actually before my built motor. And to lemons12 I started relaxing and granny-shifted 3rd(shifted at 5000) when my passenger started yelling "your gone you got him bad". If I would have lost I would have felt stupid. Now I just expected to get walked by a car that the owner going around saying "yeah man 400hp stock with my mods I wont even have to go full throttle on you." Don't get me wrong I have an 03 ss silverado with the 6.0ls2 and I love that truck. I am saying that it doesn't make sense to have that much a motor in pontiac boat and call it a day when they killed the only thing I liked about GM cars(camaro, transam).

 

[lemons12]

I have had encounters with ls2 gtos and all I can say is I am not impressed. From a 35mph roll I had 2 cars on him until we let off. From a dig you can ell that it is heavy because I left him by 4 and he pulled me back in to 1 car when we let off. Both times we went till 100mph. Oh and by the way this was with a mach1 with a n/a 5.0 stroker(stock cams and heads),full exhaust, and intake. The Gto had catback and intake.

from 35-100 roll you pulled 2?

from a dig-100 you jumped 4 and he pulled back 3?

doesnt make a lot of sense....... :shrug:

 

[option2]

I would hope you pulled more then that with a stroked 5.0 unless your low comp for F/I and just breaking the motor in. I just read this entire thread and both sides have valid points, ill give it to Lemon that he is being quite fair indeed, atleast he is attempting to way more then the other guys that start the shitting contests

 

[ULTIMATE ORANGE SS]

lemon does know his stuff.

 

[lemons12]

I would hope you pulled more then that with a stroked 5.0 unless your low comp for F/I and just breaking the motor in. I just read this entire thread and both sides have valid points, ill give it to Lemon that he is being quite fair indeed, atleast he is attempting to way more then the other guys that start the shitting contests

lemon does know his stuff.

Thanks for the comments guys!

Also thanks to all the guys in here that are being partially open minded.... :beer:

 

[ChiSVT]

it takes much much much less mods on a zo6 to hang/beat a cobra..

Agreed, it also takes much less in a Z06 to beat A LOT of cars out there, (GTOs, fbodies, etc).

no, the GTO should win everytime... it is going to have the faster ET... which is what wins races, not trap... if it were trap, or a roll race.. then yes the cobra should win everytime.. but thats not the case..
dollar for dollar the cobra can beat easily..

.

What? Neither car is a drag strip warrior, both cars have cases where they've done very well and also very poorly. There are plenty of ported & pullied Cobras that are running in the low 11s and 10s, if you look at the bare mods needed to port & pulley a Cobra; a GTO won't touch that performance for the money, at the drag strip, or anywhere else. You have to remember, a Cobra doesn't need headers, expensive ported heads, cam swaps, etc.

Here is a proven 500rwhp package from Stiegemeier.

03 04 Cobra-500 Rwhp-the Easy Way

Stiegemeier Ported Blower, Throttle Body and Plenum 57 RWHP-$695.00
2.76 BilletFlow Upper Pulley - $150
100 mm Idler
Belt
CAI - $150
NGK TR6 spark plugs
Diablo Predator Tuner
That will get you to 500 RWHP

If you look at the eaton fast list there are a lot of Cobras running low 11s and 10s with that kinda power. Not saying it's the norm, but the capability is there and has been proven many times.

Here is a ported / pullied Cobra with a small 60shot.

[ame=http://videos.streetfire.net/video/VENOMOUS03COBRA-in-car_39703.htm]VENOMOUS03COBRA in car camera 10.30 @ 134.74- Video[/ame]

Dollar for dollar the cobra can beat easily... when you start talking money, you have to factor in the amount you paid for the car.. you cant start talking money and say well besides what i spent for the car..
ls1s lay a smack down on almost anything dollar for dollar... i dont even have 15k in my entire car.. and i promise you i can handle just about any ported/pullied cobra,

FYI, GTOs had the same MSRP as 03-04 Cobras. The resale on GTOs is just a lot worse because they aren't as desirable. As for fbodies, a lot of us Cobra owners used to own fbodies. ;-) I could have made my fbody faster than my Cobra for a lot less money, but performance isn't the only thing you're paying for. My fbody was loud, had a big cam, gear, SRA, it burned oil, the t-tops leaked, etc. My Cobra has cats, is docile as **** with 500rwhp+, (rides like a bone stock car) has an IRS which makes daily driving a lot more pleasurable and yes it was very cheap to mod.

This goes for any car, I think the LS3 Corvette is the best bang for your buck car, not because I can build a 98 fbody for 1/3 as much or a Cobra for 1/2 as much but because it is a superior car that also performs awesome with little invested into it. It's the overall car, because in the end anything can be made fast. You can build an old 5.0 notchback for way under $15,000 and drag an LS1 up and down the dragstrip, does that make it a superior car?

you say GTO buys a built motor... that puts it in the bottom 10s..
then you start factoring in other things...
thing there is... there is more built ls1s/ls2s running MUCH MUCH faster than cobras, with MUCH MUCH less put in them..

I don't think you're factoring what a good suspension, SRA can do. Unlike in a GTO, a Mustang is a lot easier to modify for the dragstrip. You can do an aluminum block, front tubular suspension, auto transmission, solid rear-axle and a little weight reduction and have a sub 3300lb car without it even being gutted. (look up Almo's car, it weighed under 3200lbs and ran mid 10s with just a 6spd, pulley & bolt-ons). While you can make BIG power in a GTO, the capability to turn it into a lightweight drag car will cost you a lot of $$$ or require you to gut it down to nothing. There isn't nearly as much R&D in the GTO platform as there is in the Mustangs.

but your comparing it to cars that SHINE at the drag strip.. and honestly, cobras 90% of the time dont shine at the strip.. there was a pullied/exhaust cobra at the track last night and was running a 1 1/2 seconds slower than me and trapping 12mph slower than me...

I've seen it both ways, the GTO is heavier, can't fit as much tire, has an IRS and a very soft suspension. I've seen h/c/i GTOs run 12.5s@113mph. It's not the powerplant that allows a car to "shine" at a dragstrip, it's the driver and/or how well the car is setup for drag. If you look at hp & torque curves there is not a single factor that a roots / twin screw Cobra lacks to shine at a drag strip.

 

[Jroc]

I would hope you pulled more then that with a stroked 5.0 unless your low comp for F/I and just breaking the motor in. I just read this entire thread and both sides have valid points, ill give it to Lemon that he is being quite fair indeed, atleast he is attempting to way more then the other guys that start the shitting contests

lemon does know his stuff.

lol. I think y'all are riding those nuts a little hard. Lemon thinks he knows what he's talking about, but I don't think the he's ever even been in a 03/04 Cobra the way he talks about them. He basically calls them slow for their HP, and then when you call him out on it he counters with "well they can be fast, but from my experiance da, da, da." Its pretty funny really. Sure their not the end all to fast cars, or the greatest performance cars ever made, but there's a reason that they've built the rep that they have, and its because their pretty damn good at what they do.

Lets just be honest with ourselves here a Terminator is a better performance car than a GTO. Period, it is, and if you say otherwise your in denial or your ignorant. I've been in both stock, I've been in both mod, I've drive both and honestly Terminator > GTO for performance. So no he's not being fair minded here because if he was he would just man up and admit to that fact. Sure you could do this to the GTO and go beat a Cobra, but stock for stock, mod for mod, dollar for dollar the Cobra is a faster car. You can do this or that to a Cobra and go beat a ZO6, but that doesn't make Cobra's better performance cars than ZO6's. Seriously admit it. I have no problem admitting to certain cars being better than Mustang Cobra's. A base model Vette is no dout a better Performance car than a Terminator, and even though I wouldn't trade my car for one I don't have a problem admitting to that.

Don't get me wrong I like GTO's. They are very nice cars and have plenty of potential. I love the seats, I love the steeringwheel, the shifter location, just the interior in general, and the cars modern refinement compared to Fbodies and pre-05 Mustangs. I was impressed with the stock LS2 compared to a stock LS1, but still a Terminator is a better performance car, particularly when you start with the modding.

On another note this thread reminded me of a video I saw posted a coupe years ago. This is Country's car. Its a pulley, CB, CAI Cobra, and I think the GTO is stock so of course it should of lost, but the way it did, and the reaction from the people in the GTO tripped me out particularly since they themselves weren't racing.
[ame="http://www.dailymotion.com/wangan_x/video/x191ug_350z-vs-ta"]Dailymotion - 350Z vs TA, a video from wangan_x. Mustang, GTO[/ame]

 

[ULTIMATE ORANGE SS]

i wasnt riding shit. as a matter of fact theres very few people online i give credit to.


simple question. which car makes more power running similar FI setups?


5.7 GTO or cobra?

6.0 gto or cobra?

 

[Smokin04]

i have seen plenty with H/C bolt ons running high 7s.. that would put them at a high 11.... MUCH farther away than a built turbo motor.. there was also one at the track last night... didnt get to see him run though.. id guess itd be somewhere around mid high 4s... :lol: (no im not joking... the parachute etc. kinda gave it away...):rockon:

Parachutes do NOT = street car, plus you didn't see him run. He could've ran a 13 for all you know,

no doubt ford was VERY smart in going FI.. im not one of the ls boys that thinks that was "cheating"... cause honestly to me, it has never been an issue.. i have not been threatened by any cobra, and honestly doubt i will ever be..
isnt the cobra R a gutless drag car basically? excuse my ignorance if not.. not too knowledgeable on them. i think there was a TON of weight taken out of them..

They are actually built more for road racing. Not much weight removed, but no AC or radio. 385 HP all natural. And still 20 cubes smaller than an LS.

As far as a Cobra challenging you, you must be in a bad area for them. I personally don't even look twice at or waste my fuel on a GTO. They're just not fast to enough for me to risk jail time embarrasing. In my area and in Fla, I can't think of a single Cobra that wouldn't destroy a GTO, no matter how modified. The slowest Cobra I can think of around here runs low 11's spinning through the 330'. I would be happy to run a your GTO anytime. I need to get back from Iraq first though.

stock for stock, the cobra definitely has an advantage.. but from my experience.... 2k$ later... the advantage goes to the GTO (ls1 etc)..

i can admit defeat.. i just wont settle for it..

What would 2K buy you for a GTO?
What do you think 2K would buy a Cobra?

that comparison would be endless... reason is what you consider "streetable" or "street driven" me, you, and the owners might totally disagree on... thats an impossible comparison to make..
i DD an ms4 cam with 4k stall 410s exhaust before axle with 1 chambers etc etc etc... most people on this board probably wouldnt stand for that.. i like it, along with PLENTY of people on tech.... but that means nothing..

Agreed on what is a street car and what isn't (IE parachutes).

again, where have i made it look like i hate the cobra... i agree with a lot of things being said.. im just bakcing the ls1 platform, as you guys are the cobra platform.. seems to me though, you guys are being naive about how many cobras out there have horrible times...

Not being naive at all. I agree there are plenty of shitty times on both sides of the conversation. You haven't often seen good times from a Cobra, I have never seen anything impressive from a GTO (aside from the 6.7ish Pro-Stock car that obviously is just a GTO sticker on a fiberglass shell). Cobra's do take a little time to learn how to launch optimally. A good buddy of mine has cut a 1.41 60' on a stock IRS with just upgraded axles. I saw him do that with my own eyes. So the skill of the driver is the uncontestable trump card. (That and traction) I will agree to that absolutely. So a good driver in a GTO > crappy driver in a Cobra (and vice versa) no matter how either car is modded.

do this little test.. go to this sites "drag section" and techs "drag section".... see how many people are saying "why cant i get XXXX times" "should i be going much faster" "450rwhp and 12s" "bolt on ls1 threatening me in my pullied cobra"... there will be MUCH more here... i have been paying attention, and taken part in some of the discussion..

See above comments. You can beat yourself in a drag race if you don't know what your doing. :??:There are also plenty of Eaton cars with a shot of gas running Mid- 10's. It all depends on geography. I hope you don't think I'm trying to be a dick, as that is NOT the case. You, as you stated, are just defending the LS camp, where as I am defending the Ford side. I have driven fine specimens from both camps, and the LS is a great engine series. But Ford regained the streets when they started putting blowers on their cars. Unfortunately for GM, cubes have always been their forte. Boost beats cubes in the aftermarket because it's cheaper to make more. A pulley is cheaper than a stroker and heads. When the Cobra got blown, the LS just wasn't on the same level anymore. The GTO/LS's competition now rests with the 3 valve GT's that are similar in power (with minor bolt-ons), which again, is why I won't even bother with them. That might be the reason you have not been threatened/contested by a Cobra in your area. However, once the modding begins, the guy with the bigger wallet wins everytime.

A short rant:
Also, since it's a big subject of the conversation here...I have driven a STOCK 06 ZO6 and beaten a Viper in a "duel". I feel that the LS7 in the ZO6 is leaps and bounds better than ANY other LS based motor LS9 included. But again for GM, cubes rule. To compare a Cobra to a ZO6 is apples and oranges. A ZO6 is a much better sports car than a Cobra, but for the average Joe, it's unaffordable at almost 100 grand (AFTER MARK-UP). You can make a Cobra beat ZO6's and exotics fairly easily on the street, BUT when you get into serious mods (suspension, engine, power adders) HP per pound and traction will win in every situation.

 

[Jroc]

i wasnt riding shit. as a matter of fact theres very few people online i give credit to.


simple question. which car makes more power running similar FI setups?


5.7 GTO or cobra?

6.0 gto or cobra?

Don't give him all this BS praise because you like how he's defending a car that you own, because you are doing that. The guy is as byiast towards his brand as anyone else on here even if he says otherwise.

The Cobra will probably make more power as its designed to handle more boost pressures. If you say with both running equal psi I would say that thats retarded to even think of running low boost in a Terminator, and is just as stupid as building a low compression motor to be efficent N/A.

Heres are even simpler questions. Which is the better performance car?

03/04 Cobra or 05/06 GTO?

Which gives you better performance per dollar spent?

03/04 Cobra or 05/06 GTO?

 

[ULTIMATE ORANGE SS]

Don't give him all this BS praise because you like how he's defending a car that you own, because you are doing that. The guy is as byiast towards his brand as anyone else on here even if he says otherwise.

The Cobra will probably make more power as its designed to handle more boost pressures. If you say with both running equal psi I would say that thats retarded to even think of running low boost in a Terminator, and is just as stupid as building a low compression motor to be efficent N/A.

Heres are even simpler questions. Which is the better performance car?

03/04 Cobra or 05/06 GTO?

Which gives you better performance per dollar spent?

03/04 Cobra or 05/06 GTO?

LOL im not giving him praise because i own a GTO. what a bunch of BS.

if you could answer my question i could probably answer yours. all i wanted to know is with both motors running the same boost on identical setups would make more power?


last i knew LS motors run pretty strong with FI setups. so the answer would be whichever motor that makes more power is the better one. weight and susp. come into play also but both cars can hook pretty well when properly setup.

 

[evasbird]

I had an 06 GTO and now own an 03 Cobra, performance wise cobra is hands down superior. It handles better, brakes better, and in a drag race stock for stock not even close. Dollar for dollar the cobra is still gonna kill it. The only things the gto does better is ride smoother and is quieter and the interior was nicer imo.

 

[ULTIMATE ORANGE SS]

this is all i could find so far on GTOs. 5psi its making 457.




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6_Gncir390&feature=related]YouTube - 2006 GTO Dyno2 457.75rwhp / 429.83rwtq[/ame]