Curt@injected
Well-Known Member
Road course guys don't modify their cars?
10.8@127mph - 4200lbs race weight
- Thread starter PIPO
- Start date
Road course guys don't modify their cars?
Demon guys dont modify their cars? They all do, so its a mute point.
Its not impressive at all, put a DR on the front of literally any other performance car out there and it will stop faster than the demon does.
DR are the reason it stops well?
uhhh yea... lol There is no magic formula to a car stopping fast. All it takes is a good tire and aggressive pad, reason no other car stops as fast as the demon is because no other car comes from the factory with a DR on the front. You can make a single piston shit caliper stop the same distance as a 6P wilwood, only thing is that shitty caliper will only do it once Therefore we see the most useless stat in the world. The magic formulas are all in repeated braking and the stuff porsche does is witchcraft.
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Thankfully somebody commented on the tires. Wide 315mm R-compound rubber up front more than makes up for “only” a 14.2” Brembo package.
I still wouldn’t take it on the road course.
And back on topic, I’m guessing 10.7@134 the magazine time.
Hopefully someone gets one by Mod Nats this year and tests it on killer prep and mineshaft DA.
E85/DR only 9.99?
-J
I still wouldn’t take it on the road course.
And back on topic, I’m guessing 10.7@134 the magazine time.
Hopefully someone gets one by Mod Nats this year and tests it on killer prep and mineshaft DA.
E85/DR only 9.99?
-J
Finally someone who gets it. Look at Car and Driver and Road/Track stats for braking and you'll find some interesting stuff, like the testing for the Viper ACR where the new 4500 lb pig out stops it. How is that possible you say? Well, tires have come a long way.
Like I said earlier, put EQUAL rubber on the Accord Sport and it out brakes and out turns (at least for testing) the Hellcat.
As blk02edge eloquently pointed out, 100-0 stopping distances can not only be "fooled" or manipulated, they also don't give an indication of repetition or brake fade, which isn't just an issue on track or with repeated use, it can be deadly. Most people have never driven a passenger car hard enough to experience brake fade when the components get so heat soaked that the brakes turn to mush and the hydraulics start to boil.
The GT500 had a similar, just less pronounced problem in that it was a "one hit wonder" around the track. A lap or two and it's a beast, anything more and it starts to become a handful with all that torque and mushy brakes.
No one is saying the Demon/Hellcat should be a track car. What I'm saying is that it's an iterative issue. More weight means obviously more stopping force required (and in reserve for repetitive use). More stopping force means bigger brakes and more weight......I think Dodge Engineers finally scratched their heads and said "This is the best we're gonna do, besides, who cares....as long as the crank HP numbers are big, no one will care if it's a pig."
For an $80k+ car made in 2015+, no one has taken me up on my challenge and pointed out a single solitary piece of carbon fiber found on the Dodges. Hell, I'd be interested in learning if ANY of the components are even Aluminum. Dodge didn't spend a single dime or a waking moment trying to reduce weight AT ALL and it shows.
Which again, is pretty unfortunate, the same car with 700 hp about 500 lbs lighter would have been a truly special car. I can't tell you how many racing vids on youtube you watch where it's "1000 hp hellcat vs. 1000 hp xxxx" and the other car wins easily because 1000 hp means a whole lot more when you're not driving around with two Samoans as a weight penalty.
Many of you are strip/gearheads and you know how they "level" racing fields in a lot of classes or racing? Minimum weights and penalties.
Tire compound, sidewall stiffness and tread design dictate most of how a car will perform.
Put slicks on most of the big name muscle cars from the 60’s/70’s and you have mid 12 second cars.
Put a wide square handling tire and wheel on them and they are 10+ seconds faster around road courses. Those cars had 7.75” wheels and 215-245 wide crappy street rubber factory. Throw a square 275 track tire on basically any car with about 400hp and some semblance of a chassis and it’ll shame a street tire car on the same track.
Physics. Tire is the final word. Put a skyline gtr on 500tw tires and it ain’t doin shit for lap time compared to a stock mustang gt performance pack 1 if that mustang is on a slick or the street slick it has stock.
Take a 911 gt3rs and throw 500tw all seasons on it and you’ll hate it.
You can have all the downforce and rigidity in the chassis you want, no tire will mean it’s slow.
Putting a tire on a wallowing car is still going to make it much faster than fixing the chassis. It’s best to learn and hone a car on average to grippy street tires and then fine tune it for a sticky tire to get a great balance.
Porsche and now more and more manufactures build an incredible car then fine tune it on a grippier tire but they complement it by tweaking it to play smoothly and fun on the given tire. Just switching up tire can dramatically change balance.
Put slicks on most of the big name muscle cars from the 60’s/70’s and you have mid 12 second cars.
Put a wide square handling tire and wheel on them and they are 10+ seconds faster around road courses. Those cars had 7.75” wheels and 215-245 wide crappy street rubber factory. Throw a square 275 track tire on basically any car with about 400hp and some semblance of a chassis and it’ll shame a street tire car on the same track.
Physics. Tire is the final word. Put a skyline gtr on 500tw tires and it ain’t doin shit for lap time compared to a stock mustang gt performance pack 1 if that mustang is on a slick or the street slick it has stock.
Take a 911 gt3rs and throw 500tw all seasons on it and you’ll hate it.
You can have all the downforce and rigidity in the chassis you want, no tire will mean it’s slow.
Putting a tire on a wallowing car is still going to make it much faster than fixing the chassis. It’s best to learn and hone a car on average to grippy street tires and then fine tune it for a sticky tire to get a great balance.
Porsche and now more and more manufactures build an incredible car then fine tune it on a grippier tire but they complement it by tweaking it to play smoothly and fun on the given tire. Just switching up tire can dramatically change balance.
Curt@injected
Well-Known Member
You seem to have missed my point. You said I only deal with drag racers because I sell horsepower. We modify cars, not just for horsepower.
same. even if you were unsure of the work, using context to work out the meaning alone should add a clue that "mute" makes no sense at all.
i tend to tell people that get butthurt about being corrected that if it makes them feel insulted or defensive, then the statement made was probably true. so, if you feel like someone is calling you an idiot because you used mute instead of moot, well there you go.
concerning stopping distances for the demon, DR or not up front, its impressive. most people arent going to need to panic stop more than once a heat cycle anyways and above that, im pretty sure a different front tire will be used fairly quick. i dont think the demon will manage the same stopping distance on a regular tire up front but it would still be fairly close. an interesting thing to study imo.
If I were in a position to buy a Demon (I would if I didnt have to be money conscious) I would absolutely throw some NT01's on it and take it round for shits and gigglesThankfully somebody commented on the tires. Wide 315mm R-compound rubber up front more than makes up for “only” a 14.2” Brembo package.
I still wouldn’t take it on the road course.
And back on topic, I’m guessing 10.7@134 the magazine time.
Hopefully someone gets one by Mod Nats this year and tests it on killer prep and mineshaft DA.
E85/DR only 9.99?
-J
Well you said your customer base is 100% drag racers so not sure I know what we are even debating anymore. My only point was there are more people going to road courses than lots on this site understand. Im at the track at least 6 days/month and meet people from all over north america who share the interest, we have big names like Radical, Elan, Mclaren, Porsche, lamborghini, Chevrolet etc. who have corporate memberships and they spend asinine amounts of money in this scene, because they know its what the public wants. Those names are all huge in north america, Porche had to up north american production to meet demand on the GT3. Why would that be if people only wanted drag cars? Either way, the new gt500 is zero reason to pout if you only care about straight line because it will still totally deliver and its magazine times dont mean dick all when comparing to the Demon. Id bet stats show 90+% of true cars guys have no problem changing tires and tunes and that defeats the incredibly dumb stock debate.
So, you think it’s got a 9 sec pass on a hot E85 tune and a tire?
I’m hoping we find out soon.
-J
I’m hoping we find out soon.
-J
Curt@injected
Well-Known Member
Your point was that my customer base is 100% drag racers because all I sell is horsepower. My point was that I'm heavily involved in the American automotive aftermarket scene and have multiple road courses within an hour of us and yet drag racing is 99% of our business(we don't just sell horsepower). I'm not saying no one cares about road course but drag racing(and street racing) still DOMINATES the American car scene.
If said car goes 10.7's in the 133-134mph range, I think a 9.99 with E85 tune, front skinnies + rear tire.
Curt@injected
Well-Known Member
Yep I bet we see one go a 9 with close to no mods. Tire, fuel and maybe some weight.
I'll go a step further and say within 6 months of the first models hitting the streets there will be a shop or individual who does the SAME thing that the termi crowd did and puts a "tuner" setup on this car where they intake, tune, pulley and the car makes 150 more hp to the wheels and they throw drags on it and run deep into the 9's, maybe even 8's given how successful the aftermarket has been for the 18+ GTs.
At that point, all the Mopar pukes will scream in unison...…"STOCK."
The next time I get beaten by a crazy modified car that started as something less than mine from the factory I'm gonna use that word. When combined with $5.85 it will get me a cup of coffee at starbucks.
Curt@injected
Well-Known Member
WTF. You guys were the ones all screaming "it's not stock" because guys were putting a tire on the demon. IDK how that whole conversation got turned around.
and hellcats pick up 200+whp with the same mods, just fyi.
Because not many manufactures made road race ready vehicles even 10 years ago, just look at the schools ford offers for all their performance models, like ive said many times now, its getting bigger as this stuff becomes more available. Drag racing will always be popular as well due to how easy and cheap it is but no point in shitting on road course stuff or complaining how only dodge makes a factory drag ready car. Whats funny is at our drag strip I dont think one Demon that actually runs there isnt tuned or on a full tire, point totally defeated. Dead horse beaten though
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