"Official" Nürburgring Times SVT’s Jamal Hameedi Weighs-In
An official 'Ring lap time for the 2013 Shelby GT500? SVT's Chief Nameplate Engineer expounds why none exists.http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...ghts-his-opinion-2013-gt500-nuerburgring.htmlhttp://www.svtperformance.com/forum...ghts-his-opinion-2013-gt500-nuerburgring.html
An official 'Ring lap time for the 2013 Shelby GT500? SVT's Chief Nameplate Engineer expounds why none exists.http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...ghts-his-opinion-2013-gt500-nuerburgring.htmlhttp://www.svtperformance.com/forum...ghts-his-opinion-2013-gt500-nuerburgring.html
We certainly seem to have stirred up a bit controversy with our recent article chronicling Nürburgring lap times for a few very potent Pony/Muscle Cars. In one corner we have the 2013 SVT Shelby GT500 Mustang, home of the most powerful production V8 on planet Earth; and in the other we find the Chevy Camaro (in both ZL1 and Z/28 flavors). A couple weeks earlier we posted an exclusive video of the GT500 running a very impressive estimated lap time of just a shade under 7:40, which brings us to the point of contention.
During our dissection of the Ford footage; we had 100% raw, unedited, footage we used Chevy’s widely publicized Camaro videos as a frame of reference for lap starting and ending points. That’s where things really started to get intriguing. To the naked eye it appears that GM may have been shaving their lap times a bit by fiddling with their timers. Though definitely not conclusive the screenshots in this thread are rather damning:
http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...-shelby-gt500-mustang-takes-nuerburgring.html
That brings us to an email exchange I had with Ford's Global Performance Vehicle Chief Engineer Jamal Hameedi. I really just had one simple question, why doesn’t Ford release Nürburgring lap times for the GT500. Jamal’s answer was highly insightful, to say the least. Check out the full exchange below:
SID297 said:Greetings Jamal,
How are you? As I'm sure you're aware we've been busy the GT500
Nürburgring lap video that the media group included among the other track
runs. I was wondering if you could shed some light on why Ford chose to
not release an official 'Ring time for the 2013/14 GT500? You can see the
article here:
http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...-shelby-gt500-mustang-takes-nuerburgring.html
Thanks,
Travis
Here's is the reply from Ford's Global Performance Vehicle Chief Engineer:
Jamal Hameedi said:Ring times! Oh man don't even get me started on this topic. Our (my) view is that there is no such thing as an official manufacturer Ring time. The times being posted by many manufacturers are in my humble opinion akin to qualifying times being set at a race with no pre/post inspection (ie it would never happen). In the racing world - inspection/verification is a key part of the sport. In order for us to set an "official" time corner weights would have to be taken, calibration checksums need to be verified, engine power verified via chassis rolls, a hoist inspection, and probably a fuel sample taken by an independent 3rd party like a governing/sanctioning body. I would love to see this since everyone seems to be infatuated with Ring times. Having said that, I think it's really important that performance cars be judged against one another on the track - but the comparisons really need to be on the same day by a professional driver (just track condition from day to day puts another huge variable in comparisons). We have seen lap time spreads of over 3 sec with same car same driver different day at VIR. Now extrapolate that to a track with a 7 min lap time. Motor Trend collects cars on the same day and puts a professional driver behind the wheel - not journalists whose driving ability puts yet another huge variable in lap times - and compares vehicles same driver same day. I think they do it correctly. So does Auto Motor und Sport in Germany.
The reason we test at the Ring is because it is a fantastic venue for doing vehicle dynamics work. You get so much different content in terms of turns, elevation, etc that you would need to visit 5 different tracks to duplicate it. It's also a chance for our North American vehicle dynamics guys to cross pollinate with our Team RS guys since we are all one group now. Team RS gets a chance to offer feedback on the RWD cars and the SVT guys offer perspective on the FWD cars. That's really powerful and worth spending the money to send cars and engineers over there. Renting the Ring exclusively ($$$$$!) to make a video - not so much. I'd rather put that money into the car.
I know this isn't what the internet bench racers want to hear. As soon as there is a standard for measuring lap times - our performance vehicles will be the first in line to get tested. Until then - it's just marketing and a total free for all. They are very cool to watch though. Lol. The 2013/2014 GT500 sold just fine without a published Ring time (who could have imagined!). Actually we spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to make more GT500s due to high demand. I've seen other performance cars with published Ring times being offered with incentives and cash on the hood (again - who could have imagined!). So I sleep pretty well at night. And spend my days (and nights) working on the next slayer vs. worrying about Ring times.
Hopefully this gives you some perspective on where our minds are at wrt Ring times.
See you at SEMA!
Jamal
So after reading the opinion SVT’s main-man himself, what do you think? Are manufacturer produced Nürburgring lap times actually substantive, or are they just marketing fluff?
-SID297:beer: