SicShelby09
Banned
Sounds like the smart thing to do atleast for us guys that can run 93 is to request a 91 octane tune. Then keep running the 93. Maybe overkill but safe nonetheless.
New TSB concerning aftermarket tuning and modifications
- Thread starter KenB
- Start date
that is probably a good idea. i run 93 every time i can. mine is stock lol.
So what exactly is mode 6 and mode 9? It was only a couple months ago that big tuners were insisting that flashing back to stock would make tunes invisible. Nice. Does mode 6 and 9 pull information even after a complete battery drain? After a Ford calibration update (such as for a TSB)? It's one thing to blow an engine and fraudulently pass it off as stock, but I'd hate to be hassled for things highly unlikely to be related to a tune.
Mode 6 shows misfire per cylinder in percentage. Mode 9 shows any alterations made to the PCM's programming. You must have the proper tool to access this info which most all Ford dealers do. You can have an intermittent missfire that isn't setting a code and mode 6 will show you which cylinder is higher in percentage and that usually means that cylinder is your problem. Then you can test that cylinder/coil/injector and not just guess. Very useful and keeps you from throwing parts at an intermittent problem.
Skeltor, I'm sorry but Im not sure I believe you about stock cars. Its obvious you have a clue whats going on in the brains of these cars. No one, no where on the Internet is admitting to it. You claim to be over warranties, show us proof that it's happening. I want to see it. If people where popping #8, it would be all over the net. Look what happened when just a few (I think were up to 3 now?) popped it, and one of those thought he was warrantied originally. If your going to make claims without backing them up, then it's absolutely unreliable information. I've seem several ls camaros burn up clutches but that doesn't make it reliable information to assume a wide coverup and problem.
I still stand by tuning issue, possibly bad end of a learning curve, until I see stick cars with problems. Still none to be found other than rumor and word of mouth.
I do put a little more stock into what you say because you don't have a blown car. Everyone else screaming seems to be another butt hurt person with a denied warranty from a tuned car who now have a grudge against ford, even claiming sabotage by a union that didn't even build the motor or non disosure agreements in exchange for new motors (which isnt a term of my warranty). But I still want proof, information, I wanna see pictures of pistons with the same type of breakage as we've seen. Soooo many things can go wrong, I won't, and no one should, assume that it's all the same problems causing it.
I still stand by tuning issue, possibly bad end of a learning curve, until I see stick cars with problems. Still none to be found other than rumor and word of mouth.
I do put a little more stock into what you say because you don't have a blown car. Everyone else screaming seems to be another butt hurt person with a denied warranty from a tuned car who now have a grudge against ford, even claiming sabotage by a union that didn't even build the motor or non disosure agreements in exchange for new motors (which isnt a term of my warranty). But I still want proof, information, I wanna see pictures of pistons with the same type of breakage as we've seen. Soooo many things can go wrong, I won't, and no one should, assume that it's all the same problems causing it.
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Im a bit confused. So people that alter the Factory calibrations are upset that Ford will not warranty the damaged engine? Any manufacturer for any product is going to do this. Its a business! Go buy a vacuum take it apart and re wire it, blow it up and try to return it. Not trying to be a a$$ here just makes no sense to me. Yes we all want as much HP as we can get out of our cars but when we brake them we want to blame it on the manufacturer. Not right! If you want Ford to warranty your car leave it alone. I love the fact that Ford finally upped and reintroduced the 5.0 with over 400hp and made it affordable to the masses. Just my 2 cents worth..
Formula, that's pretty muh the gist of it. Some peoPleare claiming that it is faulty pistons but several things show otherwise.
1: it only happens to #8 so far. If it was faulty batch, it should be happening to all cylinders equally.
2: it's only happened to cars with aftermarket tunes so far. Claims that stock cars have popped are unsubstantiated as of yet.
3: its only happened to cars which have used sct base files, this is completely unproven so don't assume it's their fault!
4: it's only happened to cars Which has the knock sensor desensitized, again completely unproven and never will find out for sure.
I actively seeking stock cars with broken #8 ring lands to see for myself if it's the same issue (if there are any!) as the tuned cars we've seen pictures of (no melting, only cracked lands). Every tuner I have spoken to, and the couple that i know personally, are absolutely convinced that it is a knock sensor sensitivity issue.
1: it only happens to #8 so far. If it was faulty batch, it should be happening to all cylinders equally.
2: it's only happened to cars with aftermarket tunes so far. Claims that stock cars have popped are unsubstantiated as of yet.
3: its only happened to cars which have used sct base files, this is completely unproven so don't assume it's their fault!
4: it's only happened to cars Which has the knock sensor desensitized, again completely unproven and never will find out for sure.
I actively seeking stock cars with broken #8 ring lands to see for myself if it's the same issue (if there are any!) as the tuned cars we've seen pictures of (no melting, only cracked lands). Every tuner I have spoken to, and the couple that i know personally, are absolutely convinced that it is a knock sensor sensitivity issue.
This one sounds like a Ford issue to me. No doubt the tunes are exacerbating the problem but I still think Ford f-ed something up with #8.
SicShelby09
Banned
Yeah. Thats what I was thinking about doing. Not sure why people arent looking into that more. Its a no brainer. Than you can lower the compression a tad and run some spray or boost. Much stronger and safer. As long as the block is still good, then all you need is a forged rotating assembly.
JDV, I agree with you. I cant see when all 8 pistons share the same rings and tolerances why #8 would fail. I had the #7 piston on my 03 Cobra fail but we were able to clearly see what caused it and it was not Fords fault. The car was heavily modified (whipple 17#'s, tune etc). I am on at least 1/2 a dozen mustang websites and have not seen a issue yet about a stock car with a piston problem. I also wont count out that if there is a design flaw that a tune will expose it. But when you think of it Ford might have designed the engine to produce at its maximum safe output. After all we know its HP is under rated at 412. Which is incredible in my book for a small cubic inch naturally aspirated motor!
SicShelby09
Banned
I believe that #8 fails because its the last cylinder on the coolant path. The last cylinder to get coolant before it heads back to the radiator. So its getting the hottest coolant.
The #7 on the 03 was the last cylinder on the coolant path I believe too.
Yep it's that simple. If your lucky, it won't even touch the cylinder. Forged stuff from livernois 1400$. Rebuild kit. 250$. Do it yourself and your still under the 2k that dealership would charge you to pull and disassemble to deny your warranty.
That's my plan. TVS dat bitch and go have a ball. If I pop it, ill yank it, throw the livernois forged pistons and rods in it, throw more boost at it and have more fun. If the paint peels, I'll have that warrantied.
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It was not. It was the cylinder with the least amount of flow around it (coolant supplied to front and pulled out of front). But, chevy and ford been like that for years. No returns to the front from the rear coolant crossover. That's nothing new in the horrid world only something that is brought to light when you push for every last bit. The old days of reading plugs (or checking egt) is gone many are trying to tune without fully understanding the engineering behind the mechanical equipment. Plugs would show that those cylinders where getting hotter first and the limit was being reach. The downside of wideband tuning is that you only see the average outcome of all cylinders.
Could very well be lower coolant flow on the #8, I havnt looked at the coolant flows in these, but I still stand behind what I say. I it's not popping stock ones, then it's not fords issue, it's a tuning issue. Every mechanical thing has a weak link, a part that will fail first when operated outside of it's deigned parameters. It can be tuned around once found, but as long as they are Living when stock, ford did what they are obligated to do. I'm still wanting to see the supposed stock cars pistons to see if it is showing the same symptoms as the tuned ones.
These are great motors but must be tuned by a Professional Tuner and the proof and NO BS as follows:
Chris Cruz 8.83 /141,stock motor with supercharger and tuned by Jon Lund
Rebecca Starkey 9.79/140,stock motor with supercharger and tuned by vmp tuning
Rod Heltzel 9.89/138,stock motor with supercharger and tuned by vmp tuning
Charles Mason 11.45/118,stock motor,naturally aspirated and tuned by Jon Lund
Pete Espeut 11.89/115,stock motor,naturally aspirated and tuned by Dave Guy
These are facts guys and a few gallons of 100 octane unleaded gas sure want hurt!
Chris Cruz 8.83 /141,stock motor with supercharger and tuned by Jon Lund
Rebecca Starkey 9.79/140,stock motor with supercharger and tuned by vmp tuning
Rod Heltzel 9.89/138,stock motor with supercharger and tuned by vmp tuning
Charles Mason 11.45/118,stock motor,naturally aspirated and tuned by Jon Lund
Pete Espeut 11.89/115,stock motor,naturally aspirated and tuned by Dave Guy
These are facts guys and a few gallons of 100 octane unleaded gas sure want hurt!
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I dint think they f'd it up, but I basically agree with you. I think it might just be the first weak link. For whatever reason (cooling, farthest from knock sensor, whatever), it's going first. Can be seen time and time again in history of motors and mechanical equipment.
Now, if I start seeing stock cars with popped #8's, cracked ring lands like we've seen, then yes, illbe the first mofo saying ford should pony up and it's a serious problem.
David, your 100% correct. These motors definitely require knowledge and experience to get right. It's not your fathers mustang that anyone can poke around inthe tune and make power.
Man, Shadow, you sure are an internet tough guy. You use the internet to talk trash that you could never get away with in real life.
How's that toilet cleaning at the backwoods dealership you work at?
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I would give you more info on what I know but since I'm dealing with customers instead of my own car, I will leave that up to them. I know Ford products up, down and sideways. I do think a possible problem exists. I think it has something to do with fuel octane and tuners not having enough knock sensitivity, too much timing and not enough throttle input enrichment. But and I say BUT, I have heard through the channels that there could be bone stock issues and I will leave it at that. If you have seen the problems that I have over the last 15+ years of dealing with Ford only problems, you would know why I am a little worried. They told us the 6.4 was the cure all of all the 6.0 problems and that POS is the abortion of every diesel invented. I wouldn't give two shits about it if I didn't own one myself and know the things I know.
SicShelby09
Banned
Honestly man, most of us KNOW it was a tuning problem. Without a doubt, some of the tuning shops rushed out some tunes to get these CAIs working with them, and they pulled the same old tricks with the 11:1 motor that they were doing with the older much lower compression motors. And lets say that maybe some of the customers forgot to put in the high octane gas, or maybe they got bad gas?? Take all that into account, along with whatever other customer caused potential problems that could occur and thats the problem. Too many variables out there to send out a tune on the ragged edge on a motor with this compression. Thats all there is to it. There are so many owners of these cars that are NEW mustang owners for the first time, and all they know is what some other person told them. Go get a tune from this guy or that guy. Then they do, hotrod the car with bad gas or low octane gas on a hot day, then pop goes the 5.0. Its not a string of bad motors. Its the early tunes. Case closed.
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