Which race series?

[WutApex]

Well, I think I'm ready to move up from HPDE so I'm looking for some honest assessments from the SVTP track crew. I'm trying to decide on which NASA series I want to run in.

I'm on a fairly tight budget and do not have a tow vehicle and trailer yet. I'll most likely get a cheap open trailer for $2K and beg/borrow/steal a tow rig. Or, for the short term, building a small HF tire trailer for ~$500 (which would mean the car would need to be street legal "enough" to get me to the track and back, i.e. lights, wipers, horn, etc - )

-- Camaro Mustang Challenge (CMC)
Pros: Familiarity, torquey V8, learning to slide these big cars around seems fun
Cons: Cost of consumables is higher than SM (275 tires, gas, brakes, etc). Seems to be a bit more aggressive in my region than SM and I don't want to mess with body work. Relatively heavy cars.

-- Spec Miata
Pros: Easy on consumables - brakes and tires last a long time. Being a momentum car will teach me to be very precise. Very light and flickable - corner speed is outrageous. Cheapest (I think) = more track time
Cons: going from decent power to a low power car may bother me. Straights are painful

-- GTS2
Pros: "Gentleman's racing" so there tends to be less contact (SM/CMC/944 seem to be clapped out while the GTS cars are clean and very nice). Cool cars and seem to be fairly reliable. I really like the E30s and E36 M3s
Cons: German parts can be pricey. Around the same price for consumables as my current car from my limited research....possibly less for the E30. Open rules could lead to who can spend the most

-- Time Trials
Pros: Any choice of vehicle (I'm looking at track-prepped Datsun 510s), may be easier on the car since you only have to go hard for a couple laps instead of the whole session. Can easily be street-legal, so trailering isn't as important
Cons: Not W2W racing. No standing starts, drafting, etc

I tend to like the spec type series (CMC and SM) more since I think that could help with reliability and it more about the driver than how much someone could spend. I don't have the mechanical knowledge that a lot of the folks have so reliability is a key factor for me, especially since I'd like to do some enduros too.

Thoughts?

 

[01mnrelgraycbra]

I'm working in the same direction right now. With my eyes on CMC, it's helped keep the mod bug in check. While I prefer the tq of a v8, I some times wish that I had started with a SM.

There's a nice CMC car that was posted for sale this week on corner carvers.

 

[WutApex]

Yup, already contacted him:thumbsup:

Are your reasons for eyeing SM the same as mine?

 

[01mnrelgraycbra]

Pretty much exactly the same pro wise. I drive most everything like a momentum car, even when I took my 2010 pig of a camaro to VIR. I think I would have learned from my mistakes at a slower rate in a SM and would have been cheaper in the process.

I've stuck with to the original 87 5.0L with just an explorer intake and full exhaust for power mods in keeping to the rules of CMC. Everything else has been suspension and cooling mods. During the winter months I'll install my old gt40 heads, that came from my 94 cobra, to get to the close to full CMC engine package. My car is still speed density so I'm not installing the spec'ed E cam.

Good luck on Adam's car, well sorted and a winner.

 

[Greensix]

I would look at car counts and hang out with each of those groups to see if they fit. All of those series can but budgets series in the right region. No use in joining a race class only to find out there are 2 cars per race and you don't get along with either driver.

 

[gcassidy]

Once you are ready to go W2W racing, I would dump the idea of driving to the track with a tire trailer.

Not because there's a greater chance of not being able to drive it home (though that may be true), but once you commit to outbrake that other driver into T1, you don't want the nagging thought of having to drive it home in the back of your mind.

I went into TT because I didn't have a tow rig and couldn't put one together. But I never enjoyed TT as much as I would have W2W. I used to road race motorcycles and remember the thrill of the competition, and found it missing in TT. But that was me. Many enjoy trying to cut the bast lap, and are very good at it.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[WutApex]

Both CMC and SM have about the same car count, so either would provide good racing at either end of the pack.

I'm socially inept anyway:bored: so I usually only hang out with one or two ppl max.

SM seems like the slightly cheaper route that I could possibly get away with driving to the track with a tire trailer in tow but for the price of the CMC car in the link above, I could possibly get a cheap open trailer to go with it....and it comes with a shit ton of spares too.

 

[darreng505]

I'm going to do TT before shooting for AI or AIX.

 

[WPBcobra]

When coming up from HPDe i went to TT for a year and it helped me out alot was able to pick up alot of time running there. as far what class to run like what above people said look for the groups that have people that show up every event. CMC is a good low cost group to run and there is a few for sale on racing junk and the NASA forums. It is better to find a car that is race ready or just needs some updates to be race ready. IDK what you are looking to spend but the new Spec Iron class is going to be a low cost class compare to AI.

 

[sn95Cobrakai]

I agree with the TT option, thats what I plan on doing, then CMC to really get my feet wet, then once I have my bearings and know how everything runs/built some relationships with the club I will bump up to AI. HPDE is still fun but I don't think anything is as much fun as W2W.
So since you don't have TT as one of your original options My vote is CMC. gotta love tracking a mustang :banana:

 

[wheelhopper]

If you are going to drive the car to the track and run it, TT is the way to go. In a W2W class the competition is serious and it is hard to have the fastest track car if you are also keeping it street legal.

TT is a nice stepping stone to W2W. HPDE teaches you how to run the track safely. In TT you'll learn to drive fast. Since you'll have competition you'll drive deeper into the brake zones, stay on the gas a little longer, and take turns a little faster. All to keep the guy behind you in your rear view and the to close the gap on the guy in front.

 

[598]

You said you are ready to step up. Step up. Put the car on a trailer and race it when you get to the track. Or else make excuses about what you are going to do later.

Steve

 

[jbp99cobra]

TT is a nice stepping stone to W2W. HPDE teaches you how to run the track safely. In TT you'll learn to drive fast. Since you'll have competition you'll drive deeper into the brake zones, stay on the gas a little longer, and take turns a little faster. All to keep the guy behind you in your rear view and the to close the gap on the guy in front.

What Doug said...

Once you have learned to go fast, then go W2W. Also, I would recommend going GTS or SM. Pick a class that has a decent turn out, determine which contingencies are available, then go for it. In addition, build a car that can be eligible for multiple classes so you can change classes depending on car count. As we all know, Mustangs don't typically turn well unless you spend a lot of $$$. Then again, a well-sorted SM will run you ~$20K.

 

[99COBRA2881]

Anyone can go fast on an empty track. I could give two shits if the guy is fast, I'd rather that the first corner we go into he isn't all over he place because he is driving the line instead of giving racing room to the cars around him.

Come out to a few NASA RM and central region events. AI is growing in central region, we're a tight group that gets a long very well. Right now it's all about getting cars to the track all at the same time.

 

[TXPD]

1. tt. if you want to drive your car to the track, tt is the only option. if you are racing, you need more gear than carry in your car. trust me when i say that its hard to carry enough race gear with an f150 and an open trailer where you pile gear in the race car too.

2. stay away from cmc. its ok the clock. it has a shelf life that is close to experiation. no new cars are effectively legal for cmc that are any newer than 2004. you see fewer and fewer new entries in the class as most people aren't interested in the expense of building a racer out of a 15-20 year old car that will only get older.

3. spec iron is the class right now. its not a lot more expensive to build a car out of a 2005 gt than a 2004 gt and the shelf life is far greater.

4. buy something that you can sell. my experience has been that you need to upgrade your race car every 3 years to be able to keep resale value in the car that you are selling and make enough money from it to make an upgrade affordable. selling race cars is hard. the further away from new they are the smaller the market for them.

i race on a tiny budget. if i can do it, so can you.

5. lastly, what are your goals. i wish i had the money for a sm car. just for fun and seat time. its cheap to run. there's a lot of body work though. if you can race with the pack you will damage your car regularly.

 

[Sirl]

#5 on Robs list...
Why I dont race.. I cant handle banging up my car

However, if I did, SM would probably be my choice.
Tons of cars to choose from, cheaper, and everyone I speak to says its SOOO much fun...

my .02

 

[WutApex]

...Come out to a few NASA RM and central region events. AI is growing in central region...

I'm at almost every RM event. Couldn't make it out to Hastings or Hallett with the RM crew this year but hopefully I can make at least one next season

1. tt. if you want to drive your car to the track, tt is the only option. if you are racing, you need more gear than carry in your car. trust me when i say that its hard to carry enough race gear with an f150 and an open trailer where you pile gear in the race car too.

I think the open trailer is doable for me. And my brother will let me borrow his 1/2 ton but the logistics suck as he lives almost 2hrs from me (and the opposite direction from 2 of the 3 tracks). I may look, at least for the near term, at renting a tow rig. I'll need to factor in the additional $30mo for the trailer storage too.

2. stay away from cmc. its ok the clock. it has a shelf life that is close to experiation. no new cars are effectively legal for cmc that are any newer than 2004. you see fewer and fewer new entries in the class as most people aren't interested in the expense of building a racer out of a 15-20 year old car that will only get older.

Good insight.

3. spec iron is the class right now. its not a lot more expensive to build a car out of a 2005 gt than a 2004 gt and the shelf life is far greater.

Certainly a good option down the road but I just don't have the extra money for a newer car right now. Generally speaking - and I understand it is what it is for W2W, but would I anticipate less body contact than the current run of CMC cars. From my limited exposure, some of the CMC guys know they have a clapped out car and drive it as such.

4. buy something that you can sell. my experience has been that you need to upgrade your race car every 3 years to be able to keep resale value in the car that you are selling and make enough money from it to make an upgrade affordable. selling race cars is hard. the further away from new they are the smaller the market for them.

I think the right choice for SM is to spend a bit more on a 99+. I thought I read somewhere that the NAs would eventually be phased out. I worry in my price range ($10-12K), that I'll never get money out of it regardless of what car I get. The only exception is a TT car as I'm confident the market is going up on the Datsun 510s which would be at the top of my list

i race on a tiny budget. if i can do it, so can you. Define tiny! I think the major issue is the up front costs - car, tow rig, trailer, safety equipment, etc. Once over that hump it shouldn't be too bad....I hope:lol:

5. lastly, what are your goals. i wish i had the money for a sm car. just for fun and seat time. its cheap to run. there's a lot of body work though. if you can race with the pack you will damage your car regularly.

My goals right now aren't lofty - having fun and be semi-competitive. If I can run solid and be known by my peers to have good racecraft, I'll be happy. I work a lot of weekends so there's a good chance I'll miss a number of events anyway so any aspirations of regional champ is low, even if I was at that driving level.

Good info in this thread - thanks and keep'em coming if you have something to add.:beer:

 

[wheelhopper]

I am surprised nobody has mentioned Spec E30. In NASA MA we have as many as 20 entrants per event and you can always count on 9-10 cars. I would do E30 before SM. You can get ready to go cars for $10-$12K, They have a nice torquey 6 cylinder, they are light weight, and parts are cheap and plentiful.

In NASA MA CMC is still going strong. We typically have 8-12 entrants per event. We also add a car or two every year and have been adding more than losing. It is a cheap option and the cars are quick enough, but I like the fact that E30s use 15" wheels (cheap tires) and there brake parts are cheap, they weight about 2500lbs, and they turn similar times to CMC.

 

[99COBRA2881]

What's your car prep at? Ready to race or how much will it take to get you there?

 

[WutApex]

I love the spec e30s too but they don't run them in my region. I think I've only seen 2, maybe 3 and at least one is a GTS3 car. The field is pretty small for GTS2 which I think the SE30 would class in at. I wouldn't be opposed to running one in GTS though.

My current car is much too nice to turn into a racecar. And the cost to build it up wouldn't be worth it. I'm looking for a car that's race/OT ready.