When are YOU considered a deadly weapon?

[BleedBlueOval]

Scenario 1:

Typical bar scene, someone gets loud and physically touches a friend of yours. You have "formal" training in self defense, (ie Jujitsu) and you dislocate their shoulder or tear his knee ligaments. (Formal as in you attend a small school of martial arts.)

Are you liable for damages and are you in a position to be charged with assult?

Scenario 2:

Another bar scene, this time with you. Person A gets loud and encroaches your personal space, you back off at first and say if you get in my personal space again, I will punish you. Person A encroaches your space again and you proceed with physical force, again by bending limbs where they are not intended to go.

Are you liable for damages and are you in a position to be charged with assult?

Scenario 2a:
This time he encroaches your space AND assaults you first.

Are you liable for damages and are you in a position to be charged with assult?

Scenario 3:
Home invasion. Late at night, a single intruder enters your home and you suprise attack him, enter into a choke hold submission, proceed to assult him while he is unconscious.

Are you liable for damages and are you in a position to be charged with assult?

Finally, if and when you are charged with assaults in either of these scenarios, are you charged, "higher" for lack of better words, because you have formal training? Does it make a difference if you are a black belt or not?

 

[hweb30]

I'd say for all scenarios, you can't attack unless they attack first, and you must stop when they stop. (Lose consciousness) As far as injuries go, I've heard a bunch of stories where the person on the opposite end sues because the formally trained person took things to far.

 

[01trublue cobra]

I say he has th hit you first or have a deadly weapon, except for scenario 3, where you can proceed with the beat down.

 

[Satyr]

May I direct you folks to the Alistair Overeem bar fight, in which his brother and he sent 5-6 bouncers to the hospital. There's a thread about it already, and it is a scenario much like what you've described.

There are too many variables in all of these cases to give a solid answer. In most states, you will be fine in scenario 3. I mean, if you can kill an intruder with a firearm, I would imagine that roughing him up would also be okay.

 

[txyaloo]

Scenario 1:

Typical bar scene, someone gets loud and physically touches a friend of yours. You have "formal" training in self defense, (ie Jujitsu) and you dislocate their shoulder or tear his knee ligaments. (Formal as in you attend a small school of martial arts.)

Are you liable for damages and are you in a position to be charged with assult?

Yes

Scenario 2:

Another bar scene, this time with you. Person A gets loud and encroaches your personal space, you back off at first and say if you get in my personal space again, I will punish you. Person A encroaches your space again and you proceed with physical force, again by bending limbs where they are not intended to go.

Are you liable for damages and are you in a position to be charged with assult?

Yes

Scenario 2a:
This time he encroaches your space AND assaults you first.

Are you liable for damages and are you in a position to be charged with assult?

Possibly

Scenario 3:
Home invasion. Late at night, a single intruder enters your home and you suprise attack him, enter into a choke hold submission, proceed to assult him while he is unconscious.

Are you liable for damages and are you in a position to be charged with assult?

Yes. You can't continue to beat the shit to of someone when they're unconscious. It's the same as shooting/stabbing someone after the threat is neutralized. If a person is unconscious, they are no longer a threat to you.

 

[Satyr]

Yes



Yes



Possibly



Yes. You can't continue to beat the shit to of someone when they're unconscious. It's the same as shooting/stabbing someone after the threat is neutralized. If a person is unconscious, they are no longer a threat to you.

But would it be possible for the prosecution to present evidence supporting that the perpetrator was unconscious?

And, as far as the other scenarios go, what type of response are you "allowed" to have to those types of instances? I mean, just because you've studied martial arts doesn't mean you can't defend yourself, but where is the line drawn?

 

[ford_racer]

Holy lol at "I'll punish you." What a tough guy thing to say.

 

[VirtualSVT]

When I put my hands in my pockets I have to carry my CWP or its illegal.

 

[FoofKiller]

Wow, this thread is FULL of bad information.

 

[jcveron]

what about military? are you then considered deadly weapon?

 

[01trublue cobra]

Probably depends if you live in a Liberal or a conservative state.

 

[Sniperdog]

what about military? are you then considered deadly weapon?

Not that movies are factual, but con-air had a similar situation and he got jail time ,., is that scenario possible?

 

[jerrad]

I was considered a deadly weapon at birth. You...possibly never.

Do you plan to jump guard and go for an omaplata or drop down for a heel hook?

 

[jerrad]

Holy lol at "I'll punish you." What a tough guy thing to say.

I did the laugh/spit thing that happens when you try to hold a laugh in.:lol:

 

[steeltoe]

what about military? are you then considered deadly weapon?

Depends on your job.

 

[FoofKiller]

I was considered a deadly weapon at birth. You...possibly never.

Do you plan to jump guard and go for an omaplata or drop down for a heel hook?

Frank Dux taught him the Dimak.

 

[jerrad]

Frank Dux taught him the Dimak.

Ssshh, we don't say that name 'round here...

 

[NastyNate420]

I had a buddy that was a bounty hunter and trained in many different types of martial arts. He was a considered a "lethal weapon" and when ever any kinds of altercation happen he'd make sure to diffuse the situation and NEVER with violence! It jus wasnt worth it for him.
That being said of course the guy could sue you in all the situation and would prolly win some sort of settlement ......If they NEVER find the body then you might be in good to go!

 

[xtremeskime21]

You are considered a deadly weapon when you grow a set as big as chuck norris....he will let you know when to stop growing said set.

 

[FordSVTFan]

Scenario 1:

Typical bar scene, someone gets loud and physically touches a friend of yours. You have "formal" training in self defense, (ie Jujitsu) and you dislocate their shoulder or tear his knee ligaments. (Formal as in you attend a small school of martial arts.)

Are you liable for damages and are you in a position to be charged with assult?

The person physically touching your friend does what? If the person who gets "touched" feels that there is an imminent danger he may defend himself. In some states a friend can come to his rescue and use the same amount of force the actual victim could use however that force still must be reasonable. Also, if you are wrong and the victim would not have used force you are liable.

Additionally, if you dislocate someone's shoulder or tear their knee ligaments in response to touching that is an unreasonable response and you are likely to be brought up on criminal charges as well as civil.

BTW, what is assult? Do you mean "assault?"

Also, the "when are you considered a deadly weapon" comes from watching way too much tv. Some people are trained to defend themselves, others are simply nuts, and some people have natural ability, regardless your response must be reasonable.

Scenario 2:

Another bar scene, this time with you. Person A gets loud and encroaches your personal space, you back off at first and say if you get in my personal space again, I will punish you. Person A encroaches your space again and you proceed with physical force, again by bending limbs where they are not intended to go.

Are you liable for damages and are you in a position to be charged with assult?

Loud and encroaching on your personal space is the definition of the bar scene. Therefore without an overt act your actions are unreasonable. For liability see above.

Scenario 2a:
This time he encroaches your space AND assaults you first.

Are you liable for damages and are you in a position to be charged with assult?

You are always allowed to defend yourself but it must be reasonable and in proportion to the initial attack. It also must end the minute the threat is gone.

Scenario 3:
Home invasion. Late at night, a single intruder enters your home and you suprise attack him, enter into a choke hold submission, proceed to assult him while he is unconscious.

Are you liable for damages and are you in a position to be charged with assult?

You assault someone while unconscious that turns you into the aggressor and you most likely will be charged.

Finally, if and when you are charged with assaults in either of these scenarios, are you charged, "higher" for lack of better words, because you have formal training? Does it make a difference if you are a black belt or not?

In some areas it might be an aggravator if you are a professional, but not just because of the training. And the charge was aggravated the prosecution would have to prove that you used your training in an unreasonable fashion.

May I direct you folks to the Alistair Overeem bar fight, in which his brother and he sent 5-6 bouncers to the hospital. There's a thread about it already, and it is a scenario much like what you've described.

That did not happen in the U.S.

But would it be possible for the prosecution to present evidence supporting that the perpetrator was unconscious?

And, as far as the other scenarios go, what type of response are you "allowed" to have to those types of instances? I mean, just because you've studied martial arts doesn't mean you can't defend yourself, but where is the line drawn?

Regardless of your training you can respond to an immediate threat with the same level of force presented and must do so reasonably and stop as soon as the threat is gone.

Holy lol at "I'll punish you." What a tough guy thing to say.

You must say it with a Dolph Lundgren accent: "I'll punish you." Followed by an evil laugh.

When I put my hands in my pockets I have to carry my CWP or its illegal.

You too? :beer:

Wow, this thread is FULL of bad information.

Really, what is the bad info?

what about military? are you then considered deadly weapon?

Really? If you are talking about special operators they might consider it an aggravator. But any person can act as a deadly weapon, but in general we dont classify a person as a deadly weapon.

I had a buddy that was a bounty hunter and trained in many different types of martial arts. He was a considered a "lethal weapon" and when ever any kinds of altercation happen he'd make sure to diffuse the situation and NEVER with violence! It jus wasnt worth it for him.
That being said of course the guy could sue you in all the situation and would prolly win some sort of settlement ......If they NEVER find the body then you might be in good to go!

Who considered him a "lethal weapon?" Did he have to wear a sign or something?