Whats the farthest youd push it

[slow_99cobra]

I've been hearing a lot of contradicting things on the 99-01 motors.

From what I "know" the crank will take what ever you throw at it. But the rods are known for bending or breaking in the 600 hp area. Is this true or false or jsut one of those where its a flip of a coin on what happens. Then I've also heard of ppl running higher numbers with no issues. Anyone that can clear it the rumor mill up for me thanks

 

[droptopsnake01]

450rwhp with a stock motor.

 

[slow_99cobra]

Thanks whats usually the weakest part that goes first

 

[mustangman36578]

450 with a good tune. rods are first to go but pistons first if its not tuned properly.

 

[slow_99cobra]

450 with a good tune. rods are first to go but pistons first if its not tuned properly.

hearing two people say 450 is good enough for me.

 

[droptopsnake01]

Thanks whats usually the weakest part that goes first

Usually pistons. But the rods can go at that power aswell. You just never know.

 

[mustangman36578]

ive heard of 600+ for 03/04 shortblocks but they have stronger internals.

 

[droptopsnake01]

ive heard of 600+ for 03/04 shortblocks but they have stronger internals.

Yeah, I think I have read that somewhere :bored:

 

[Swaie]

Yea, 450 is about the limit, which is why I stopped at 423.

 

[don cobra]

Mine is pushing 501rwhp on stock everything but procharger. Good tune is important.

 

[IUP99snake]

The pistons are a very weak link, and the "ring lands" are what usually fails first. I've seen a stock 01 cobra with a D1 make 569 RWHP on the dyno. The owner kept that setup for a good year without blowing the motor. Finally, he wised up and took the blower off before destroying the motor.

I made 510 to the wheels on a stock motor, and it survived for an entire summer before the #6 piston had a failed ring land...

With my aviator long block, I have it tuned to 450 to the wheels (with lots of fuel and conservative timing), and it's survived for over 50,000 miles.

It's all in the tune, but don't push it past 450. I'd say dial it back from 450 to somewhere in the 425 range.. that way you don't have to be afraid when you floor it..

Homer

 

[slow_99cobra]

The pistons are a very weak link, and the "ring lands" are what usually fails first. I've seen a stock 01 cobra with a D1 make 569 RWHP on the dyno. The owner kept that setup for a good year without blowing the motor. Finally, he wised up and took the blower off before destroying the motor.

I made 510 to the wheels on a stock motor, and it survived for an entire summer before the #6 piston had a failed ring land...

With my aviator long block, I have it tuned to 450 to the wheels (with lots of fuel and conservative timing), and it's survived for over 50,000 miles.

It's all in the tune, but don't push it past 450. I'd say dial it back from 450 to somewhere in the 425 range.. that way you don't have to be afraid when you floor it..

Homer

Thanks for the good advice everyone I'm looking at running a nitrous setup and will probably be making a stop at alternative for the fine tuning so I can run a dual tune. With my luck who knows how it'll go.

 

[cobraracer46]

The stock short block can live under boost if detonation is eliminated . Too much heat, not enough fuel and too much timing can cause detonation. Detonation cracks ring lands, burns pistons and breaks connecting rods.

Excessive RPM's can also break connecting rods. (My soon to be Vortech aftercooled boosted cobra already has a lager Fluidyne radiator to keep engine temps under control and a methanol kit will be added as well to eliminate any chance of detonation)

Detonation going to work on a piston.

Just to give you an idea as to how powerful a detonation spike can be, Accufab says that these super thick piston pins can bend when a high compression hi boost cylinder detonates. Now think about how long the stock piston pins and connecting rods in your Vortech boosted stock short block will hold up after a cylinder detonates.

Thick is the word here. The JE piston-skirt wall measures an amazing 0.196-inch thick, yet Fred says they still collapse when worked hard. No one knows the crown thickness, but it's like a bunker. Piston weight is in the 400-plus gram league, which is meaty for a modular forging. The pin is a thumping 0.220-inch thick. It looks and feels more like an extreme-durability pin (think bulldozer) rather than a 9,400-rpm part. Again, Fred says these ultra-beefy pins will bend if the engine detonates. Yikes!

One mustang shop's thoughts on pushing the limits on a stockCobra short block.

"The venom in this Cobra’s bite comes from a Vortech S-Trim supercharger, pulleyed by Lidio to produce a full 16 psi of boost at a blood-curdling 8,100 rpm. Surprisingly, no significant internal engine modifications were deemed necessary by Lidio; the stock valve springs were merely shimmed to produce more pressure, and the cams were left stock. The crank, rods, and pistons? Stock.

“The Cobra crank is steel,” comments Lidio. “And that bulls**t about the stock pistons breaking? It’s just that—bulls**t. As long as you keep detonation out of the picture, they’re fine.”"


August 30, 1999

32V Hyperutetic Pistons and Supercharging– A Formula for Disaster?
Supercharging the 32V Cobra has become more and more popular over the past 2 years and is without a doubt, the number one choice for a power adder. But, throughout the Mustang performance scene we’re seeing and hearing about more and more 32V owners with broken pistons and damaged shortblocks. With almost a solid 10:1 compression ratio and 8 – 10 psi of boost from a Vortech or other supercharger, many feel the stock hyperutetic pistons are a weak link and break much too easily.

So are the stock hyperutetic pistons and supercharging a formula for disaster?

Let’s provide a few answers before going any further. Hyperutetic pistons are up to the task of serious supercharging and power levels, don’t worry about them. But, you need to make sure that your combination is not tuned overly aggressive. With that said, let’s get into the details.

The Pistons
Yes, forged pistons are stronger than hyperutetic ones and can sometimes tolerate more abuse. But the 32V engine is not nearly as weak as some people think it is. We have had extensive experience with hyperutetic pistons and under the conditions they break, a forged piston would have been damaged as well. Many 5.0 owners get away without breaking their hyperutetic pistons because the head gasket seal is inherently weak and will usually blow before piston damage can occur.

The hyperutetic pistons in the 32V Cobra engine can easily handle horsepower levels in excess of 700 hp. But, as with ANY piston in a 10:1 engine and good sealing cylinder heads, they’re prone to failure when serious detonation occurs.

The Real Problem
The chronic piston breakage and damaged 32V shortblocks that some shops experience over and over isn’t because of an inherent weakness, it’s improper or overly aggressive tuning.

With almost a 10:1 compression ratio and 8 – 10 psi of boost, proper octane and spark timing is essential. Too many people do not respect the cylinder pressures that are being created with this combination and if too low an octane fuel is used or too much spark is added something will give, and it’s almost always the pistons.

Since its introduction, we have sold over 100 Vortech kits for the 32V Cobra and installed and tuned more than 70 of them. We feel that the chip that is included with the kit isn’t as good as it should be and it’s difficult to develop one set of parameters that can function safely anywhere in the country. There are too many variables such as elevation and regional gas quality. So all of the kits that we install come custom tuned with our own chip using C&M’s software and a high-end wide-band air/fuel ratio analyzer.

Of the more than 70 Vortech kits that we’ve personally installed and tuned, NOT ONE HAS BROKEN A PISTON OR EXPERIENCED OTHER ENGINE FAILURE.

We consider our tuning to be very down to earth and conservative. It is much more important to us that our customers have a reliable package than a record setting hp number. Too many people are too concerned with having a dyno-jet printout that is higher than someone else’s. One of our customers took his Vorteched Cobra (that we installed and tuned) to another speed shop for a promise of higher hp numbers. As they promised, he walked away with a higher hp number than with our tuning. But he also walked away with several broken pistons that they refused to be responsible for.

Roughly 20% of the Vorteched Cobras we’ve built have returned for more boost and larger injectors. We routinely run more than 14 psi and have still had zero problems. In ’98 we set up one of our 32V customers, Howard Schwartz’s 97 White Cobra, with over 16 psi of S-Trim boost on a stock shortblock. The car has been featured in Super Ford and MM&FF and has run as quick as 11.00 @ 127 mph. To this day he still hasn’t had any problems. But that level of boost requires high-octane fuel and Howard has run Turbo Blue since the boost was raised to its current level, not a feasible option for many people. But the proper fuel and tuning that is on the conservative side have kept his street car fast and reliable.

Hopefully you’ve gathered a little insight from this article, it wasn’t meant as a commercial for our tuning, we’re not the only ones who understand how to make reliable 32V power. But if you’re contemplating to or already have supercharged your 32V Cobra, remember that the hyperutetic pistons are more than up to the task of serious horsepower, and a Vortech can turn an already fast car into an even faster one and still be reliable. But you need to make sure that whomever tunes your car has plenty of experience and isn’t disregarding the safety of your engine to make themselves look like a hero. Be satisfied with a slightly lower peak hp number than you saw on a bulletin board and be comforted with the knowledge that your engine will stay together.

 

[slow_99cobra]

“The Cobra crank is steel,” comments Lidio. “And that bulls**t about the stock pistons breaking? It’s just that—bulls**t. As long as you keep detonation out of the picture, they’re fine.”"

Thats who will be doing the tuning for me once i get to that stage. Everyone I know thats gone to him has had nothing but the best of luck with him.

 

[slowr w/o blowr]

500rwhp- good tune and don't flog it at every light. Maybe every other light. 13psi 525+ rwhp 2 years.
Don't be a puddy cat!

 

[stradt03]

Lidio tuned my blown cobra back about 7 years ago.

 

[Hlistr_07RR]

When do you need to upgrade other things, such as the clutch?

 

[notchstang92]

I had my tune done conservative. I am only running 12* @ 8 lbs on an eaton. Put down 417hp/389tq. Its a very conservative tune designed to keep the motor together. Talk to your tuner and see what they think is best. I think quality gas is important too. Supposedly gas loses octane after sitting for 30+days. Good dyno tuning from someone who understand these cars is critical. A pre made tune that is mailed to you will get the car running, but you need the dyno to dial it all in for your car.

I wouldn't feel up to pushing 500 rwhp, but that is in part because of the horror stories I have read on here. Funny that in my old 92 notch I would be fine with a high 400hp car.

 

[D's01Snake]

i love when people say "talk to your tuner" its funny how they are like our family doctors. Please consult your tuner. Man we are sick.

 

[rockthemullet]

502/433 on 10psi centrifugal

456/402 on 8psi positive displacement

Both are 100% stock engines