What tricks can I get away with for more power without a tune?

[Dinosgt]

As the title says, I have been seeking to optimize engine output without a tune. Heat soak clearly is a big one that needs addressing, as all the bolt ons in the world won't help if the stock tune is pulling timing.

Since an engine is basically an air pump, getting air in and out more efficiently is the key. So - my question; will porting the TVS and elbow behind the throttle make 'free gains' without a tune?

I know a bigger TB or headers require a tune, but will simply removing intake restriction require the same?

Thanks ....


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[PhoenixM3]

Ford Racing 65mm TB is an easy upgrade which doesn't require a tune.

 

[02GTKB]

You for sure will need a tune if you port the s/c... A lot more air is coming in so it would make sense you will need the correct fuel to counter that.

 

[Norton]

Ford Racing 65mm TB is an easy upgrade which doesn't require a tune.

You for sure will need a tune if you port the s/c... A lot more air is coming in so it would make sense you will need the correct fuel to counter that.

+1 to all of this.

Pretty sure your no tune options are limited to (Ford Racing 65mm or CFM/VMP 67mm) TB upgrade and a resonator delete tube. TBs are available from a number of vendors, for ~$600/ea new and usually ~$500 used. Resonator delete tubes are also available from a number of places, but I think the most popular are JLT. They used to offer a CF version, sometimes still found in the used market, but now carry only a plastic version with optional HydroCarbon-finish.

Obviously, gains from either/both these upgrades will likely be modest, but the res delete does make the supercharger whine more pronounced.

 

[fearthesnake]

Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids....

Just like everyone has side, intake side only. Otherwise a tune is most likely required.

 

[Catmonkey]

What's the issue with not wanting a tune? You can only take a stock engine so far with bolt ons before you start to begin to run into problems with load calculations in the OEM tune.

 

[Ray Lucca]

Ford Racing makes a Res Delete, won't void the warranty. Airaid non oiled Filter. 3" SS Catback may also help, also warranty friendly

 

[Papaw]

Weight reduction is your best bet for improved performance without tune. Lighter wheels, brakes, K member, rad support. Junk like that. You could even go into "Demon mode" and gut your interior.

 

[13COBRA]

Uhm.. Odd thread.

Tires, and suspension will give you more seat horsepower, neither requiring a tune.

 

[Dinosgt]

First - thanks to all for the input. Appreciate it.

What's the issue with not wanting a tune? You can only take a stock engine so far with bolt ons before you start to begin to run into problems with load calculations in the OEM tune.

Yup - but I'm still under warranty and would like to ride it out prior to a tune. As you know, even "going back to stock" on the ECU leaves fingerprints that an OEM can find in the case the motor goes south for some reason.

I'm really just looking to under stand what really needs a tune and what doesn't. I guess I don't understand why if air is metered by the factory MAF with a "factory" intake (stock or Res del) why it matters what happens "behind" the TB with airflow. Exhaust scavenging is a different story, so I get how a cat delete or Headers would require a tune. But I would presume a ported elbow or S/C would simply move air more efficiently and with less boost, none of which I would THINK would affect the MAF readings or proper A/F and timing. But what I THINK and what IS are likely different...

Uhm.. Odd thread.

Tires, and suspension will give you more seat horsepower, neither requiring a tune.

Yup - I have that stuff (BMR suspension, MPSS Cup 2 305s, etc.) Just basically looking to protect the warranty while squeaking a few more HP out if possible but increasing efficiency vs adding boost, etc.

+1 to all of this.

Pretty sure your no tune options are limited to (Ford Racing 65mm or CFM/VMP 67mm) TB upgrade and a resonator delete tube. TBs are available from a number of vendors, for ~$600/ea new and usually ~$500 used. Resonator delete tubes are also available from a number of places, but I think the most popular are JLT. They used to offer a CF version, sometimes still found in the used market, but now carry only a plastic version with optional HydroCarbon-finish.

Obviously, gains from either/both these upgrades will likely be modest, but the res delete does make the supercharger whine more pronounced.

Thanks Norton - I have read about every post I can find on the TB. I already have the res del. I think I recall you personally saw about a 25HP add from a simple Ford 65mm TB bolt on, while others claimed it may require a tune. I believe your experience over time as been otherwise?

Again all, I appreciate the dialogue. I actually have a "stock" Lund tune sitting on my NGauge waiting to be uploaded. I just never pulled the trigger due to the warranty considerations.

 

[Dinosgt]

Ford Racing makes a Res Delete, won't void the warranty. Airaid non oiled Filter. 3" SS Catback may also help, also warranty friendly

Thanks Ray - I already have that stuff - just hungry for more...;-)

 

[Norton]

Thanks Norton - I have read about every post I can find on the TB. I already have the res del. I think I recall you personally saw about a 25HP add from a simple Ford 65mm TB bolt on, while others claimed it may require a tune. I believe your experience over time as been otherwise?

Always happy to share info!

I can't confirm specific gains from a res delete or TB but, VFORCEJOHN's results (posted here) indicate ~25RWHP from the res delete and AIRAID filter and ~54RWHP from res delete, AIRAID filter, and 65mm TB.

The closest I got to a baseline dyno pull was with my res delete and AIRAID filter. More recently, I went with a BPS Ported Elbow, 127mm JLT Intake, 2.4 Upper Pulley, and Tune.

I was pleased with both dyno sessions, that indicate I may have lucked into an engine that resides at the upper end of the power spectrum for its breed. More likely, however, I suspect the SAE "correction factor" applied to both pulls (1.26) is a bit generous to forced induction vehicles. (Perhaps, it's a combination of both.)

 

[tomshep]

I did a Ford 65 TB with a JLT tube and noticed a slight driveability issue on mine. The throttle wasn't as smooth as stock during easy driving or in traffic, which really bothered me. I honestly can't say with certaintity if it made more power. It was definitely better looking than the original. I went back to stock.

Tom

 

[Norton]

I did a Ford 65 TB with a JLT tube and noticed a slight driveability issue on mine. The throttle wasn't as smooth as stock during easy driving or in traffic, which really bothered me.

The same problem bothered me too, when I limped mine from my garage where I installed the hardware to my my tuner. FWIW, mine smoothed out after being properly tuned. (Guessing yours would too.)

 

[Dinosgt]

Always happy to share info!

I can't confirm specific gains from a res delete or TB but, VFORCEJOHN's results (posted here) indicate ~25RWHP from the res delete and AIRAID filter and ~54RWHP from res delete, AIRAID filter, and 65mm TB.

The closest I got to a baseline dyno pull was with my res delete and AIRAID filter. More recently, I went with a BPS Ported Elbow, 127mm JLT Intake, 2.4 Upper Pulley, and Tune.

I was pleased with both dyno sessions, that indicate I may have lucked into an engine that resides at the upper end of the power spectrum for its breed. More likely, however, I suspect the SAE "correction factor" applied to both pulls (1.26) is a bit generous to forced induction vehicles. (Perhaps, it's a combination of both.)

Thanks Norton - I think I read that thread ten times front to back over the past year or so. It seems that some have no issues, while others do. I'm in a stage of life right now where when I finally get to drive the beast, I don't really have time for issues - I just want to go for a blast and take it home and park it. Which is why I will probably leave it alone (TB/Elbow) etc. until after I am ready to tune.

Again - thanks for the links sir...

I did a Ford 65 TB with a JLT tube and noticed a slight driveability issue on mine. The throttle wasn't as smooth as stock during easy driving or in traffic, which really bothered me. I honestly can't say with certaintity if it made more power. It was definitely better looking than the original. I went back to stock.

Tom

Thanks for this Tom - yeah, as I mentioned I think experience is generally mixed, with most leaning towards the "no problem" side with a TB and no tune. But I believe Ford, Lund, and VMP all recommend one, so I am leaning towards waiting. Not knocking anyone else's experience, just don't want to deal with any potential issues unless I go in eyes wide open (i.e. a tune).

My original question still stands if anyone has any insight, i.e. Why would reducing restriction behind the TB (SC/Elbow, but not in the exhaust) affect anything that would then require a tune? The stock MAF should see correct airflow, the A/F ratios should ten remain OK, and so the car should run better with less boost needed and potentially flow more air (?)