Did anyone see/get the spec on the oiling system for the GT500? Was it dry sump?
What Kind of Oiling System for the 5.4?
- Thread starter crispy23c
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Nope, it's not using the dry sump from the GT.
It's got the same limited system as any other SVT Mustang. No indication of any kind of air-to-air cooler (no room anyway). Probably the same old oil pan. This is by no means whatsoever a Ford GT engine, with the exception of the heads and piston rings. And hopefully the lack of a speedisleeve.
Thanks. That explains the extra bulge in the hood.
jwfisher said:
Direct carry over parts include: GT lower intake, GT intercooler, GT heads, valvetrain (not sure about cams yet) and a twin screw. The crank is forged (not GT spec thankfully) and the block is still 5.4L and strong enough to hold 1400HP+ (flywheel).
The following may or may not, be direct carry over: Cams, rods, pistons.
Those are the most important parts of the power making equation. We may not get an Al block, or dry sump, but such is life and the car is under 40k.
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I thought it was already listed that the pistons and rods will not be GT pieces. Still haven't heard about the cams, and the blower has not been officially listed as a twin-screw. Everything I have seen only reads, "screw-type." I would assume that it's a twin-screw, but you can never be sure when companies list something as a "type."
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:Fourcam330 said:
WDW MKR said:
I'm using logic/common sense. I can't for any reason see Ford going back to a twin rotor Eaton instead of a more efficient (both with regard to power/heat production) twin screw. The inital difference in cost could easily be offset by gains in long term durability.
Pistons are going to be near if not the same exact static C/R due to the fact that positive displacement blowers love 8.5-9.2:1 C/R. I don't care what kind of rod it has, they have no bearing on power production at all--they can either take the stress or not. Finally cams, IMO, it would be a waste of $ for Ford to R&D another grind when they have a direct carry over readily available.
FWIW, you may have seen the pistons, cams listed as specifically designed for the GT500. Ford also claimed that with the 03 Cobra cams, which turned out to be a 99.5-02 Navi 5.4L intake cams and 99/01 Cobra exhaust cams.
I could be wrong, but chances are, I'm not ;-)
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I know, that's the only thing I lament about on this car. I can live with it, given the price.
Fourcam330 said:
Common sense doesn't always apply with auto manufacturers. I never said they were going back to the twin-rotor design. I simply questioned why the blower has been consistenly labeled as a "screw-type." Most reports indicate that it will be an Eaton-manufactured twin-screw.
Rods can make a huge difference in power production considering if they can't take the power, then you can't make it. I highly doubt the cracked I-beams that are in the prototype car have equal strength to those in the GT and 03/04 Cobras. That doesn't mean they can't take good power, but I don't see them having the upper power limits of the Manley H-beams. If they truely are cracked, any heat treatment done to gain ultimate stregth will surely sacrifice ductility, which might be a problem with the stroke, mass, and low-RPM of the 5.4 motor.
I wouldn't doubt that the cams are exactly what is in the GT. Afterall, the heads are supposed to be GT/2000 R pieces. But, while the pistons may have the same CR, they may not be nearly as strong. I'm not even sure what slugs are in the GT. I certainly hope they don't use the same lackluster pieces that we have in the 03/04 Cobras.
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WDW MKR said:
Common sense applied along the lines of saving $ is the bottom line with auto makers.
GT pistons are Mahle's and decent pieces, 03/04s use Zollner's with crappy teflon coating and weak skirts.
There are PM rods these days, not even forged, that can handle 800HP. If in fact Ford is using a new type of rod (as cracked/forged would indicate) we'll just have to find out the old fashioned way how strong they are :burnout:
Obviously if a rod isn't strong enough to last, it's going to cap conservative HP production. Again though, rods are either strong enough to hold the power, or they're not. When referring to the max power potential of 03/04s we can say 550rwhp with decent durability (stock pistons are the limit here), and 650+rwhp with a twin screw swap on a maxed out longblock.
The top end of the new GT500 motor begs for billet rods and CP pistons like no other.
JB said:
The Mahle's may have a teflon coating on their skirts, however, it's not the same coating used on the Zollner's.
I haven't heard anything about piston problems on GTs as of yet, though only time will tell how good/bad the slugs really are. Thankfully there are at least a handful of GT owners performing power producing modifications these days.
JB said:
So much for learning from mistakes...
Fourcam330 said:
Saving money never results in everything the enthusiast wants, and often ends in compromised integrity. Things like scored pistons and ticking valve guides are proof of that. Although many Cobras are pushing well-beyond 650rwhp, that is probably a good number for durability's sake. The GT500 motor would certainly be awesome with a stout bottom end. Of course, all the Terminator needs is some CP pistons, so not much has changed. Gotta love the extra displacement, though.
I should not have said it is the same coating as Terminators have (I don't know if it is or isn't the same).....I see now that my source simply said that they have "anti-friction coating" applied to the piston skirt
WDW MKR said:
I never said Ford was chalk full of enthusiasts, SVT may be, but they still have to answer to the bean counters. I meant that Ford takes a common sense approach to cost cutting via parts sharing; as the bottom line is of course profit.
550rwhp is a good # to limit power at on the 03/04s with stock pistons. ~650 is a max effort stock longblock twin screw 4.6--just don't expect the stock pistons to last too long.
The extra displacement combined with heads that flow around 50cfm/60cfm more and an even less restrictive intake/IC fed via a factory twin screw is going to be VERY nice. :beer:
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Well the saying goes with sports cars, low price-reliability-performance, you can never have all three at the same time. Of course here people bitch about all three :-D As for people who talk about issues after modding cars, a manufacturer could give two shits about how the car holds up with double the boost and 200 shot. You should see how quickly other manufacturers, like Subaru will completely blacklist and void your shit. Sometimes just a muffler is enough. The last 6 WRX's in a ROW traded in all had no warranty. Someone needs to go to MB's web site, pull up the cheapest 450hp car on the list and get a price quote for a reality check.
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KevinB120 said:
:-D Yes, I agree with you. I've been playing with horsepower for 20 years and that is why i say you are better off starting with a higher horsepower factory car, adding some easy boltons for some extra power........things that can be easily converted back to stock(assuming you kept the stock components) as compared to starting with a 200 hp engine and adding major work. You are more confident in the reliability going from 450 factory to 500-550 than going from say for example the 300hp 2005 GT and adding a blower and some other goodies to go to 450-500 hp range. Yes, you pay more but your horsepower will be there with more reliability and warranty. My 2 cents
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