What is the law regarding force on thieves? (CA)

[Juiced-03]

On Saturday morning I caught two people take a picture of my license plate on my driveway. They didn't take a pic of anything else, just the plate. They didn't look inside the car, just walked to the trunk, took a picture and got in the car. I had my gun in my hand and as soon as they got in the car I lit them up with my Surefire flashlight to let them know I saw the whole scenario. I think it scared them pretty good because they blew through my stop sign and did probably 50mph on the rest of the street. I bet they didn't count on me being wide awake at 3am (I work nights). Not much else I could have done for only a picture.

Now my real question. I have a feeling these guys may have been scoping my car out, but why take a picture of my plate when they already know where I live? And if they come back to steal the car, what does the law say I am allowed to do? Watch them steal it? I don't want to break any law, but then again, it's hard to just think that I can only watch them take my Cobra.

I think they will give it a little while since they had been made by me, but I do think they will be back.

 

[BAMM BAMM]

You pointed your gun at them??!! For what? Taking a picture?

 

[FordSVTFan]

On Saturday morning I caught two people take a picture of my license plate on my driveway. They didn't take a pic of anything else, just the plate. They didn't look inside the car, just walked to the trunk, took a picture and got in the car. I had my gun in my hand and as soon as they got in the car I lit them up with my Surefire flashlight to let them know I saw the whole scenario. I think it scared them pretty good because they blew through my stop sign and did probably 50mph on the rest of the street. I bet they didn't count on me being wide awake at 3am (I work nights). Not much else I could have done for only a picture.

You shouldnt have done that. You should not have had the gun in your hand as that is brandishing. That can be a felony. You werent in your home, you were outside. If you have a CCW, that weapon should have been concealed until it was determined that deadly force was your only option. If you dont have a CCW you are even worse off.

Now my real question. I have a feeling these guys may have been scoping my car out, but why take a picture of my plate when they already know where I live? And if they come back to steal the car, what does the law say I am allowed to do? Watch them steal it? I don't want to break any law, but then again, it's hard to just think that I can only watch them take my Cobra.

You already broke the law by brandishing a firearm. You dont know what they took a picture of, maybe it was the plate, maybe it was emblem, maybe it was a prank, maybe it was for future criminal activity, but you dont know. Myself and other members of my team often do some recon on targets of investigations and their associates and friends. In doing so we often photograph these vehicles and their license plates. Now imagine if you will, what would have happened if myself or one of my colleagues was there when you did this? If we stopped our vehicle and exited, would you have pointed that gun? What do you think our response would have been?

If you are watching them try to steal your car, call the police. Then from a safe distance shine a heavy duty spotlight on them. Have your weapon concealed and if they choose to do something that threatens your life, you can take action to protect yourself.

I think they will give it a little while since they had been made by me, but I do think they will be back.

I highly doubt they will be back.

 

[BAMM BAMM]

Aren't you in the hiring process for CDC????? What you did is the quickest and surest way to get yourself disqualified from ANY LEO position!!!! FordSVTfan is correct.

 

[FordSVTFan]

I am correct? Really? Do I win anything? :shrug:

 

[mswaim]

Don Pardo, tell the gentleman what he has won!!!!!!!

Yes Adam, you do win First Prize!!!! First Prize is an all-expense paid trip to New Jersey!!!!!

Second prize is Two - count em, Two, all expense paid trips to New Jersey!!!!!!!

Third Prize is three all-expense paid,,,well, you get the picture.

 

[Juiced-03]

I guess I left out some important information. I did have my gun in my hand, but I was not outside. I was in my house watching the whole thing. All I did was shine my light at them from inside. I knew there wasn't anything legal I could have done to them for taking a picture, so I just stayed inside. I didn't know if they were going to try to break into my house or what, but I did not go outside and point a gun at them. I think you guys should know me better than that ;-)

If that was a cop doing investigative work, they broke about 5 laws in the process (speeding, running a stop sign, wreckless driving, illegal parking, no headlights). Not to mention the guy looked to be in his teens.

Any thoughts why someone would take a pic of my plate though? If someone tried breaking into my car or tries to steal it, I don't want to just scare them, I want them in jail. But I don't want to get in trouble in the process. But I highly doubt the cops could make it to my house in time so that's why I was wondering what kind of action I am allowed to take.

 

[Juiced-03]

You always read about how people say they would shoot someone if they caught them breaking into their car, or how they would run outside with a wrench or a bat. Would they really do anything with those weapons? Maybe so, but they'd be in jail before the thief would be.

 

[Iceman II]

First thing I thought was do you have a personalized license plate or is it just a regular plate. Here in Texas, anyone could/can prevent the consequences of theft. Using force is NOT a problem. Here a cilivian could use deadly force if need be. I would NOT recommend using deadly force on someone for stealing your property. You will get hammered in court. Only use deadly force if you fear for your life or the life of another person. You may have already done this, an outdoor light that goes on anytime someone approaches, car alarm and I don't the cheap ones. Make sure to get the incident documented.

 

[FordSVTFan]

Don Pardo, tell the gentleman what he has won!!!!!!!

Yes Adam, you do win First Prize!!!! First Prize is an all-expense paid trip to New Jersey!!!!!

Second prize is Two - count em, Two, all expense paid trips to New Jersey!!!!!!!

Third Prize is three all-expense paid,,,well, you get the picture.

Damn it, that is just my luck!!! I left there for a reason. :bash:

 

[Juiced-03]

First thing I thought was do you have a personalized license plate or is it just a regular plate. Here in Texas, anyone could/can prevent the consequences of theft. Using force is NOT a problem. Here a cilivian could use deadly force if need be. I would NOT recommend using deadly force on someone for stealing your property. You will get hammered in court. Only use deadly force if you fear for your life or the life of another person. You may have already done this, an outdoor light that goes on anytime someone approaches, car alarm and I don't the cheap ones. Make sure to get the incident documented.

I have a personalized plate. I thought maybe they just liked the plate and wanted a picture of it, but why be so suspicious about it at 3am? It just seemed too odd. Thanks for the reply

 

[mvcrash]

You always read about how people say they would shoot someone if they caught them breaking into their car, or how they would run outside with a wrench or a bat. Would they really do anything with those weapons? Maybe so, but they'd be in jail before the thief would be.

yea, cause the thief would be in the hospital. You are allowed to defend your property.

 

[ROADWARRIORSVT]

yea, cause the thief would be in the hospital. You are allowed to defend your property.

This is true to an extent. But you can't shoot someone for trying to steal you car. (as much as we'd like to, but its still a no-no)

 

[Cochese]

This is true to an extent. But you can't shoot someone for trying to steal you car. (as much as we'd like to, but its still a no-no)

Move over to my hood.

SUBCHAPTER D. PROTECTION OF PROPERTY

§9.41. Protection of one's own property.

(a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.

(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or

(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.

§9.42. Deadly force to protect property.

A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:

(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and

(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:

(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

 

[FordSVTFan]

In short, if you take or try to take someones property in Texas you can be shot!

 

[ROADWARRIORSVT]

We need to follow TX law!! :-D

 

[Juiced-03]

That's the way it should be!

 

[03CobraDude]

How do you KNOW they were taking a picture of just your plate. Perhaps they liked the rear of the car... I'd probably break a few of those laws too, thinking some guy was shooting at me...

And if we'd all follow Texas law, just think.. If you saw a nice Enzo sitting outside somewhere, and u took a picture, the owner might come out of the house with a shotgun and try to fill you with lead...

 

[Cochese]

Fortunately for us, this isn't Kansas and common sense prevails. :burn: :beer:









On a side note, if you read PC 9.42 (2)(a) carefully, you will note that not just theft, but the simple act of criminal mischief (keying/slashing tires/braking windows, etc) during the nighttime can be met with deadly force.


Don't mess with Texas. :mj:

 

[djc]

i need to move to texas. logic seems to prevail there, since it does not here