Want to share an experience with MMR and a Headgasket issue...

[Slostjoe]

I've gone back and forth with myself wether to make this post, yes I know people talk crap about MMR so I'm going to share my experience.


I purchased an MMR 1500 5.4 short block fully assembled with all the extras that were available, in my dealings with them I dealt with Brett who was fantastic, the motor was assembled and delivered before schedule everything looked absolutely perfect. I was putting 5.8 heads on a 5.4 block I was told that I had to use 2007 to 2009 head gaskets.


The motor was completely assembled everything went together flawlessly, I put about 250 miles on the set up and the first time I go into boost it pushes all the coolant out of the overflow tank, I was informed by another member on here that perhaps I have the incorrect head gaskets and that I need the 5.8 head gaskets because the combustion chamber is larger. Well, lo and behold that was the case after disassembling the motor MMR sold me, I find incorrect head gaskets. I called them to tell them of my findings and they argued the fact with me and told me that it was my tuners fault although the motor works flawlessly, obviously I have the incorrect gaskets based on poor information given by them. So, I'm paying to have the motor torn down and buy new head gaskets and do everything all over again based on incorrect information from them. They will do nothing to help me they just point the blame at my tuner. They seemed extremely helpful until I told them of the situation, now all I get is pointed fingers in the worst possible direction. In my phone call to them one of the guys at the shop said that they would gladly sell me the 5.8 head gaskets at a discounted price. Why would they offered to sell me head gaskets they believe are incorrect? My guess is they don't actually know what it takes to build the set up. My post is not to slam, slander or cause any other issues than state my experience with their lack of help.

 

[stkjock]

so they told you when they built the motor to go w/ 07-09 gaskets, do they now say you need the 5.8 gaskets?

can you document that?

 

[MattR]

They didn't bolt the heads down, I guess I don't see how it's their fault? Who bolted the long block together? To me the blame would be with them, I could be wrong though.

 

[carguy19]

Seems like theres a good amount of posts like this one in the forums.

Sad to see any vendor not stand behind their work.

 

[RedNightmare06]

I've gone back and forth with myself wether to make this post, yes I know people talk crap about MMR so I'm going to share my experience.


I purchased an MMR 1500 5.4 short block fully assembled with all the extras that were available, in my dealings with them I dealt with Brett who was fantastic, the motor was assembled and delivered before schedule everything looked absolutely perfect. I was putting 5.8 heads on a 5.4 block I was told that I had to use 2007 to 2009 head gaskets.


The motor was completely assembled everything went together flawlessly, I put about 250 miles on the set up and the first time I go into boost it pushes all the coolant out of the overflow tank, I was informed by another member on here that perhaps I have the incorrect head gaskets and that I need the 5.8 head gaskets because the combustion chamber is larger. Well, lo and behold that was the case after disassembling the motor MMR sold me, I find incorrect head gaskets. I called them to tell them of my findings and they argued the fact with me and told me that it was my tuners fault although the motor works flawlessly, obviously I have the incorrect gaskets based on poor information given by them. So, I'm paying to have the motor torn down and buy new head gaskets and do everything all over again based on incorrect information from them. They will do nothing to help me they just point the blame at my tuner. They seemed extremely helpful until I told them of the situation, now all I get is pointed fingers in the worst possible direction. In my phone call to them one of the guys at the shop said that they would gladly sell me the 5.8 head gaskets at a discounted price. Why would they offered to sell me head gaskets they believe are incorrect? My guess is they don't actually know what it takes to build the set up. My post is not to slam, slander or cause any other issues than state my experience with their lack of help.

You might want to revisit that the cc chambers size , in all 07-14(stock) heads they are the same size (unless someone ported the heads they should be the same)
A 5.8 gasket on a 5.4 bore could be a bigger issue.

I believe you might have a different issue.

First thing I would look at since your using a new block (aluminum block I am guessing?)

The gasket has a few rivets that holds the layers together .
Sometimes the gasket rivet(just one usually hits) depending on block being used will touch a flat spot on the block surface and does not allow the head to sit totally flat on the block.
There are a few different gaskets that have the rivets in different positions.

You can use any year gasket really for the 5.4 just lay the gasket down and verify no rivets are touching, if any do just remove it from the gasket.

 

[Snoopy49]

There are additional holes drilled in the 5.8 block that are not in the 5.4 block?
Photos from the following article.
2013 Ford Shelby GT500 Trinity 5.8L V8 - Power Of Three

5.8 block

Best visual clue to identifying the 5.8 block is the drilled water passage at the 6 o'clock position below each cylinder. This passage flows water to the cylinder head where it is directed between the exhaust valves seats. Also note the slightly larger round holes between the cylinders. These are found on both 5.4 and 5.8 blocks, but in the 5.8 block the passages are drilled, as detailed in the next photo.

Subtle machining is the only difference between the Condor 5.4 and Trinity 5.8 cylinder blocks, which are whittled from the same casting. One change impossible to see is the 5.8's deck height is 255.71 mm versus the 5.4's 256.00 mm. That minor 0.29mm difference accommodates the 5.8's thicker headgasket. Another invisible change is in the water jacket cores. The 5.8's cores were lightly massaged in spots to increase coolant flow while maintaining wall thickness. But major locations of interest to hot rodders, such as bellhousing bolt patterns, head retention, water and oil pump locations, and so on, are identical to 5.4 practice.

5.8 cylinder head

Shutterbug Dale Amy points to the one visible feature on the 5.8 cylinder head--the drilled coolant passage directing water to between the exhaust valve seats. There is no corresponding exit to this new water entrance; once the coolant has flown between the valve seats, it rejoins the general water flow in the larger cooling jacket above the combustion chamber. It's details such as these that give the SVT engine the durability to run at maximum torque for 100 hours during durability testing with no appreciable wear to the engine.

SVT saved considerable work by not machining the combustion chambers to match the new larger bore diameter. The result is a lip of material not covered by the head gasket, but it hasn't amounted to anything in testing. But it sure illustrates how a 93.5mm bore on 100mm bore spacing leaves but 6.5mm between cylinders. This narrow area is especially tough on the head gasket and block; engineers found cross-drilling the block to water-cool this area was mandatory to block and head-gasket longevity.

 

[Slostjoe]

The heads were bolted down correctly. 100% sure of that I was warned this exact thing would happen if I didn't use 5.8 gaskets once the motor had already been installed. You can definitely tell once the heads were pulled off that the gasket was the incorrect size it was hanging over into the combustion chamber in fact the valves had actually been touching the head gasket.

 

[Snoopy49]

Is there any indication that the head gasket was leaking cylinder pressure back into one of the water passages in the head?

 

[RedNightmare06]

The heads were bolted down correctly. 100% sure of that I was warned this exact thing would happen if I didn't use 5.8 gaskets once the motor had already been installed. You can definitely tell once the heads were pulled off that the gasket was the incorrect size it was hanging over into the combustion chamber in fact the valves had actually been touching the head gasket.

A valve in this motor will not/ should not touch the gasket. (including yours what you described)

Did you use dowel pins in the block? sounds like the gasket moved to touch a valve.

 

[Weather Man]

The heads were bolted down correctly. 100% sure of that I was warned this exact thing would happen if I didn't use 5.8 gaskets once the motor had already been installed. You can definitely tell once the heads were pulled off that the gasket was the incorrect size it was hanging over into the combustion chamber in fact the valves had actually been touching the head gasket.

The guy putting the heads on should have said, "time out". MMR gave bad info, but the guy turning the wrench has to show some common sense, like looking at the gasket on the block and going WTF!

 

[Catmonkey]

I'm running a 5.8 with the earlier (2012) heads. I'm running 5.8 head gaskets because a 5.4 gasket is to small for the bore. If the extra hole in the head is terminated at the head gasket, I don't see it being an issue and your resulting leak. Who bolted the head to the block and what head bolts did they use? If they reused stock that could be your problem. TTY are one time use. If they used ARP did they use their moly lube and torque specs. As someone else already said, there is no way a valve could have contacted the head gasket. The combustion chamber is a good bit smaller than bore.

 

[Ghoust]

I have never dealt with MMR personally and I have to say I am not a fan of their "sky is falling" posts "don't let this part destroy your motor". I plan to stay away from them if at all possible.

 

[Snoopy49]

Can the head gaskets be installed upside down? If so, this could cause some of the holes to not align and cause water circulation problems and create hot spots.

 

[Turbo98GT]

I have never dealt with MMR personally and I have to say I am not a fan of their "sky is falling" posts "don't let this part destroy your motor". I plan to stay away from them if at all possible.

Probably a wise move. I run a large social media based site and have seen it all from them. I'm still surprised they are allowed to still be a vendor on this site.

 

[2011 gtcs]

Bummer to hear this, hopefully you get the problem figured out. It sounds like you may need 5.8 head gaskets especially since the deck height is 255.71 mm versus the 5.4's 256.00 mm. But I could be wrong.

 

[NightRide]

I have no experience with them but paying for a built motor should be warrantied. Saying it's the tune is a cop out so there isn't really any warranty at all when having "built" motor. Sorry to hear this, I would be steaming mad to put it mildly.

 

[09Troublemaker]

The guy putting the heads on should have said, "time out". MMR gave bad info, but the guy turning the wrench has to show some common sense, like looking at the gasket on the block and going WTF!

+1
How does one assembly this and not double check things. Seems very odd

 

[Slostjoe]

I posted this to share my experience, I know what the problem is and what will fix it I'm not asking for advice I'm just making a statement. The engine builder didn't notice it because who flips the heads over and compares the bore size on the head gasket at least I have never done that. They were the correct for size for the block just not the cylinder head it was off by such a small amount it would be hard to tell by the naked eye. We even called twice to verify that these were for sure the correct head gaskets and were going to tear the motor down but thought for sure that they would be right since they claim they done the swap many times.

 

[Snoopy49]

Are you saying that the stock 5.4 head gasket extends into the cylinder bore? Did you blow a head gasket? Can you post any pictures of the problem areas?

 

[Wiseguy]

Unfortunately, mistakes are costly on these power plants. One would think you would have a compression gas issue right away during the 250 miles (in boost or not. Lost of coolant, etc. Dowels on engine assembly?, head Tq? Gaskets on correct sides?, heads were checked for straightness/flatness? Heads have a Rough Average( Ra) 50-60? The heads are the same CC from 2007-2014 and the 13-up has the extra coolant port drilled that the 5.4 gasket would cover up. The 5.8 gasket is also thicker and would be thinner between the cylinders on a 5.4 block.