Valve float @ higher rpms w/ stock springs?

adler

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Has anyone with a 4 valve had valve float issues on their turbo car?

I have 04 cobra heads with stock springs and stock cams, a Master Power 76mm with a .96 a/r turbine housing, 38mm wastegate (about 12psi spring), Eboost2 boost controller, stock exhaust manifolds, 3 inch downpipe w/ no cat, no mufflers dumped at the steering rack, Sullivan lower intake, HPP upper intake, stock throttle body, 80lbs injectors, running E85.

On 13psi the car makes about 540hp, and 16psi the car makes 615hp. The power carries all the way to 7,000 rpm. A/F is about 11:8

On 18psi the car made about 650hp on the same day, but the power falls off hard after about 6,000. From 6,000 rpm to almost 7,000 rpm, the car would drop from 650hp to 395hp. Its weird, the power would climb like normal until it hits about 6k rpm, and then just fall off.
This starts happening when we take it past 18psi.

The boost would never fall off after 6k rpm when the power falls, air/fuel is still straight while the power is falling off, timing isnt doing anything weird. A few people have suspected that the turbo was maxed out, but its only at about 650hp at 18 psi when the power starts falling off. And the IATs are only about 115-130 degrees.
There is a VERY SLIGHT sputtering sound when the power starts falling off at 18psi. You can barely hear it. Sometimes I dont hear it.

My tuner, Manny Alavarez (HPP Racing), told me that it might be the valve springs. He had a problem similar to mine on a turbo LS1 that he was tuning. The car carried the power all the way through the rpms on lower boost. When he tried to turn it up, the power would fall off hard at higher rpms, and it would have a slight sputtering sound. They put in a set of stiffer valve springs, put it back on the dyno, and it was able to carry the power all the way though the RPM range.

I have seen plenty of turbo 03-04 Cobras with stock valve springs making over 800hp without any problems.
This motor has also seen about 20psi of boost when I had a Whipple 2.3 about 2 years ago, and it carried the power all the way to 7000 rpm.

Let me know what you guys think.
Thanks for reading my novel :)
 

prostkr

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I doubt spark blowout, this is an interesting problem. Is the motor stock or built? Im thinking cam timing just off the cuff.
 

adler

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I have always ran the NGK BR7EF plugs, and never gap them. I have already put in a new set of BR7EF plugs, and then problem is still there.

It is a 04 Cobra longblock. The short block was rebuilt about 3 years ago. It has a set of JE pistons with ARP studs. It still has the stock valvetrain. I havent touched the timing chains in over 2 years. I did put in a new timing reluctor wheel when I had the timing chain cover off back in March.
 

Bill Putnam

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I've heard from a few people that at roughly 20 psi you have to have upgraded springs or you will get float. A friend with his turbo Shelby had the problem at a slightly higher boost level and about 5800 RPM the car would severely lose power just as you described. He had the engine pulled, better valve springs and has been good ever since.
 

adler

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I've heard from a few people that at roughly 20 psi you have to have upgraded springs or you will get float. A friend with his turbo Shelby had the problem at a slightly higher boost level and about 5800 RPM the car would severely lose power just as you described. He had the engine pulled, better valve springs and has been good ever since.
Yea, I have personally seen and worked on a few turbo 4valve motors make 700-950hp with stock springs, but I cant remember how much boost they were running.
Its kind of hard to say what it is. I am leaning towards either valve springs or I am maxing out the turbo.
 

Bill Putnam

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Yea, I have personally seen and worked on a few turbo 4valve motors make 700-950hp with stock springs, but I cant remember how much boost they were running.
Its kind of hard to say what it is. I am leaning towards either valve springs or I am maxing out the turbo.

The car I referring to that was losing power over 5800 was making right around 1000RWHP.
 

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