Upgrading the heat exchanger....

[Forbidden Snake]

... IMO is a complete waste of money. Other than looks, it does absolutely nothing. After many many hard runs with my car, the intercooler fluid is not even warm.

I think you guys are all doing this wrong. I mean if you want better cooling, upgrade your radiator to a ligther and more capacity unit, not your HE. Heat soak comes from the engine being too hot, not the Heaton blowing hot air into it. Lowering temperature of the block = lower temperature of the Heaton as it conducts heat from the block = possibly better overall performance.

Also I don't understand why people would upgrade the HE when running a blower upgrade because any bigger blower = more efficient = cooler than the Heaton = even more of a waste of money.

I'll probably get flamed for this, but anybody have any thoughts?

 

[mike79]

The larger HE is more for everyday driving. If you want something thats good for the track, the vortech ice box is something to look into. The larger HE is still moving the same amount of intercooler fluid around, just across a larger surface area. I think that if someone came up with a way to actually keep the IC fluid res box cool, and make it larger, we would see a huge difference.

 

[drkchk03svt]

Originally posted by Forbidden Snake
...

I think you guys are all doing this wrong. I mean if you want better cooling, upgrade your radiator to a ligther and more capacity unit,

Do you know who makes a better radiator that is a perfect fit? Just curios???? How much are they?


So you are saying a bigger intercooler for turbo cars is usefull because more colder air. But with the heat exchanger bigger does not necessarily mean cooler fluid?

 

[Forbidden Snake]

This does not apply to turbo-charged cars. They use air-to-air intercoolers, which is more efficient, which = more efficient the bigger the intercooler is.

For our application here, we use water-to-air system. My point is: The water going through the actual intercooler is not even hot, not even warm. It's room temperature or ambient temperature. Upgrading the HE will do nothing, not even for everyday driving. Bigger does not necessarily mean better in this case. The stock HE is very efficient already.

The ice-box is a totally different story.

Where can we buy a bigger, more capacity radiator? I don't know. But if one of the vendors could make one, I would buy one.

 

[7168548]

You know what I was having the same thoughts. When I had my Harley truck not one of the members that I know of including the Lightning owners had upgraded H.E.'s. And many tests were done with our trucks to see if there was any improvement and the outcome was none. Is there really any proof that these aftermarket H.E.'s actually work???

 

[mike79]

I see what your getting at Forbidden...good point.

 

[Forbidden Snake]

As far as I've seen? NONE! Only speculations.

Common sense says that the more surface area water has to flow through, the cooler it will get. That statement is TRUE, however, the water flowing through our HE is not even warm. How can you further cool ambient temperature water with ambient temperature air? You can't.

 

[florida03]

You just helped me make my decision on an Afco
I was gonna get installed friday, plus I think there
charging way to much for any HE. Ill put the $400 plus $75
labor into some handling related mods. TY.

 

[drkchk03svt]

Originally posted by Forbidden Snake
This does not apply to turbo-charged cars. They use air-to-air intercoolers, which is more efficient, which = more efficient the bigger the intercooler is.

For our application here, we use water-to-air system. My point is: The water going through the actual intercooler is not even hot, not even warm. It's room temperature or ambient temperature. Upgrading the HE will do nothing, not even for everyday driving. Bigger does not necessarily mean better in this case. The stock HE is very efficient already.

The ice-box is a totally different story.

Where can we buy a bigger, more capacity radiator? I don't know. But if one of the vendors could make one, I would buy one.

THAT IS WHAT I SAID... BIGGER INTERCOOLER=Colder Air
BIGGER HEAT EXCHANGER=COLDER Fluid???? We know it helps in a INTERCOOLER but not sure about a HEAT EXCHANGER. jesus. Try back you up and you shoot me down. LOL

Nevermind. I was backing up your theory and you did not get it. oh well.

 

[IronTerp]

Interesting....this flies in the face of everything we've been told about the necessity of an upgraded HE when running a high RWHP Eaton........Is not the job of the HE to keep the air/fuel intake charge as cool as possible as it enters the cylinders for combustion? The smaller the pulley and/or the higher the rpm of the Eaton, the more heat develops which by physics should transfer to the boosted air/fuel mixture. Thus, the cooler we can keep the intercooler fluid, the better chance we have of keeping the air/fuel mix cooler.......is this right?

The question is: Is the coolant that passes through the intercooler with an aftermarket HE any cooler than the coolant that passes through with a stock HE...........? Forbidden, you say it's not hot, but room temperature. If you're right and they're the same temperature in both instances during times of high boost, then you have a pretty valid point IMO......

 

[03redfiresnake]

I can't find the article written in 5.0 mustang, and I realize the manufacturers of these parts sponsor the magazine, they gained like 10 hp just by the drop in the temp of the intercooler fluids by adding a he. they did not expect any gain..and I remember a graph showing how the temp was dropped like 20 degrees, through out the operating cycle. I agree if the fluid is only room temp then it is not going to drop it much, if any. How do you know this - by touching the he at its hottest time and it not feeling hot ? - that eaton gets extremely hot !!- I've never felt the he after some boosted blasts !!!!!

 

[Forbidden Snake]

Let me put it another way for all...

This is what I believe... Heat soak is a by-product of power output and efficiency of the radiator at ambient temperature. Intake temperature charge and flow plays an important part of the power output. But it don't matter if you're blowing 20-deg or 100-deg celcius air into the engine, your engine will get HOT without proper cooling.

When you go from being stock to running a 2.8" pulley or smaller, you are making more power. More power = hotter engine. Without a better engine cooling radiator you may experience heat soak on a hot summer day. And it isn't due to the hot air you're blowing in. The heat soak comes from the inefficiency of the radiator to expell heat at these hotter ambient temperatures now that you are pushing more HP than what it's designed for.

In conclusion, if you want to improve cooling, upgrade your radiator. If you want to improve intake temperature charge, save your money and upgrade your blower.

 

[Forbidden Snake]

Originally posted by drkchk03svt
THAT IS WHAT I SAID... BIGGER INTERCOOLER=Colder Air
BIGGER HEAT EXCHANGER=COLDER Fluid???? We know it helps in a INTERCOOLER but not sure about a HEAT EXCHANGER. jesus. Try back you up and you shoot me down. LOL

Nevermind. I was backing up your theory and you did not get it. oh well.

Hey I wasn't shooting you down. I was just clearing things up. :beer:

 

[ChicagoMike]

Apten got more power on the dyno doing back to back runs on the dyno with their H.E.. Explain that.

It does something - it also increases your coolant capacity.

 

[Forbidden Snake]

Originally posted by IronTerp
The question is: Is the coolant that passes through the intercooler with an aftermarket HE any cooler than the coolant that passes through with a stock HE...........? Forbidden, you say it's not hot, but room temperature. If you're right and they're the same temperature in both instances during times of high boost, then you have a pretty valid point IMO......

I don't know if they are the same temperature or not, but I can tell you it's not even warm with the stock HE; thus, it's a waste.

 

[drkchk03svt]

Track solution would be a ICE box by vortech!

 

[ChicagoMike]

So here's an idea. .. do a couple 1/4 mile runs back to back, and stick your finger in the intercooler resevoir. Let us know if it's hot ... my guess is that it is and that it starts cooling the instant it hits the heat exchanger ...

Originally posted by Forbidden Snake
I don't know if they are the same temperature or not, but I can tell you it's not even warm with the stock HE; thus, it's a waste.

 

[AtomHeart]

It's because both are equally important and not particularly related: Intake Air Charge Temp, and Engine Operating Temp.


IF YOU REEEEAAALLY WANT TO MAKE MORE POWER AND OPERATE COOLER UPGRADE BOTH THE RADIATOR AND HEAT EXCHANGER.

Fact of the matter is, the Eaton creates EXTREME temperatures when at high boost. Every time we floor it, the temperature inside the Eaton goes from around 200 degrees, up to about 400 degrees. It then almost immediately cools off once the pedal is released, and boost drops. The intercooler is only there for cooling the air charge during those few moments of high boost intake by the supercharger.

Forbidden, where exactly are you measuring the temperature of the intercooler fluid? It's going to vary GREATLY at different locations in the fluid loop, and at different times throughout the boost cycle.

 

[ChicagoMike]

Apten says: We now carry the AFCO heat exchanger for your 2003-2004 Mustang Cobra. This unit bolts right in place of the factory heat exchanger and there is no need to modify anything on your car to accept it. The price is $400 + shipping.

This heat exchanger can drop intake temperatures by 10 degrees or more. We gained 8RWHP on a same day dyno test because of the lowered air temperatures.

Also, read Gordsfords comparison specs and the COOLING RATIO:

http://www.gordsfordperformance.com/specs.html

 

[Forbidden Snake]

Originally posted by ChicagoMike
Apten got more power on the dyno doing back to back runs on the dyno with their H.E.. Explain that.

It does something - it also increases your coolant capacity.

Can be anything.

Now if they immediately put back a stock HE and run it back to back many times and consistently get a lower number on the same day, then I would have to believe it. It may hold more volume, but it's really just cosmetics at this time (for me at least).