UCA and LCA's with spherical rod ends.

[Yellow Horse]

I installed a set of LCA's and UCA from BMR this weekend and I am getting some thumping and squeeking. I torqued the fasteners as much as I could on jack stands and I feel I exceeded the manufacturers torques specifications.

Is the noise normal? It would not bother me if I knew it was normal. I plan on checking them this weekend anyway.

 

[fullboogie]

Yes, rod ends are noisy as hell.

 

[Tob]

It's a bit disingenuous to declare that 'rod ends' are one way or the other without any consideration given to the construction of said joint as well as the manufacturer of origin.

Instead of just ordering a control arm with a heim, you should've been asking BMR who makes the joint in each arm. Are they a two piece or three piece? Do they utilize a Teflon liner or not?

A quality heim isn't necessarily 'noisy as hell.' The joint will transmit harmonics that have always been present but may have been minimized by softer bushings, mass dampers, etc. A worn heim will indeed be noisy. An audible clunk usually gives it way. But what is important to note is that the life of the joint has everything to do with the type of construction and the quality of materials used (hint - offshore heims don't last).

Heims definitely offer more performance than a rubber or poly joint. Anything less is compromise, however quieter they potentially are. IMHO, unless the car is used with a heavy bias towards drag racing, I'd back off on using steel joints on both ends of the upper (possibly, at all on the upper). The NVH transmitted into the cabin via the short upper arm are often more than people are happy with. The Roush arm performs well here, as it eliminates the 'pudding soft' large bushing and replaces it with a much higher durometer rubber joint. The lowers, in conjunction with a 'quiet' upper, don't have the same effect when using quality heim joints at that juncture. Or better said - they seemingly don't transmit suspension harmonics into the cabin as much as the upper can.

Yellow Horse, can you elaborate a bit more? The following statement you made...

I torqued the fasteners as much as I could on jack stands and I feel I exceeded the manufacturers torques specifications.

If you 'torqued' the fasteners then you tightened them to a recommended torque number and wouldn't have exceeded them. Are you really saying that you tightened them (implying you didn't use or didn't always use a torque wrench) as much as you could and feel you may have gone too far?

If you can, what are the part numbers for the arms you installed? I'd be interested in seeing the parts, the joints, followed by looking into the source of the heim joints.

 

[fullboogie]

TOB - my comment is based on two different sets of LCA, by two different manufacturers, properly installed. And based on my experience, both were noisy as hell compared to poly joint LCA and stock LCA's. I hope that clears things up.

 

[Yellow Horse]

It's a bit disingenuous to declare that 'rod ends' are one way or the other without any consideration given to the construction of said joint as well as the manufacturer of origin.

Instead of just ordering a control arm with a heim, you should've been asking BMR who makes the joint in each arm. Are they a two piece or three piece? Do they utilize a Teflon liner or not?

A quality heim isn't necessarily 'noisy as hell.' The joint will transmit harmonics that have always been present but may have been minimized by softer bushings, mass dampers, etc. A worn heim will indeed noisy. An audible clunk usually gives it way. But what is important to note is that the life of the joint has everything to do with the type of construction and the quality of materials used (hint - offshore heims don't last).

Heims definitely offer more performance than a rubber or poly joint. Anything less is compromise, however quieter they potentially are. IMHO, unless the car is used with a heavy bias towards drag racing, I'd back off on using steel joints on both ends of the upper (possibly, at all on the upper). The NVH transmitted into the cabin via the short upper arm are often more than people are happy with. The Roush arm performs well here, as it eliminates the 'pudding soft' large bushing and replaces it with a much higher durometer rubber joint. The lowers, in conjunction with a 'quiet' upper, don't have the same effect when using quality heim joints at that juncture. Or better said - they seemingly don't transmit suspension harmonics into the cabin as much as the upper can.

Yellow Horse, can you elaborate a bit more? The following statement you made...



If you 'torqued' the fasteners then you tightened them to a recommended torque number and wouldn't have exceeded them. Are you really saying that you tightened them (implying you didn't use or didn't always use a torque wrench) as much as you could and feel you may have gone too far?

If you can, what are the part numbers for the arms you installed? I'd be interested in seeing the parts, the joints, followed by looking into the source of the heim joints.

I'd like to see someone get a torque wrench on the upper control arm.

As far as using a torque wrench on the lower, no. They are as tight as they were coming off.

I believe they are going to be a little noisy. I like the feel of it. I know my car felt crisper and was breaking the stock tires loose easier at 60 mph with throttle this morning.

I have only put about 1k on my GT500 this year. I just put a MM roll bar in it and have the entire rear seat out and the carpeting from the trunk out. I realized on the way home this evening this is allowing a lot more noise to enter the cabin. I hope to get aluminum panels to cover where the seat is and make a carpeted base for the trunk that should help a lot. I have the battery in the trunk. The trunk carpet is pretty cheesy and I would have to cut it to go around the battery box so I'm going to make one from cabinet wood and carpet.

 

[evasive]

Agree with Tob. I'm running the Maximum Motorsports and they aren't noisy as hell IMHO but that's subjective I guess to some degree.

 

[Tob]

I'd like to see someone get a torque wrench on the upper control arm.

I had to go back to an earlier writeup I did to see if I was able...

Thus I loosened the Roush bolt at the arm pivot, adjusted to match the stock arm and retorqued. And as I had mentioned, I'm glad I did it out of the car. Once installed, I tried to slip a socket on over the nut and couldn't. The floorpan wouldn't allow it (and there was no room to swing a wrench). About three blows with a socket on the end of a couple of 1/2" extensions and I had relieved the floorpan enough so that I could now adjust it if I wanted to (in car).

I like the feel of it. I know my car felt crisper and was breaking the stock tires loose easier at 60 mph with throttle this morning.

I know exactly what you mean and 'crisper' is the same word I would use to describe it.

I have only put about 1k on my GT500 this year. I just put a MM roll bar in it and have the entire rear seat out and the carpeting from the trunk out. I realized on the way home this evening this is allowing a lot more noise to enter the cabin. I hope to get aluminum panels to cover where the seat is and make a carpeted base for the trunk that should help a lot. I have the battery in the trunk. The trunk carpet is pretty cheesy and I would have to cut it to go around the battery box so I'm going to make one from cabinet wood and carpet.

You've got me on mileage this year. I think I only made it out a handful of times. Good luck with your car.

Tob

 

[Tob]

Agree with Tob. I'm running the Maximum Motorsports and they aren't noisy as hell IMHO but that's subjective I guess to some degree.

I can think of three people on this board that use the MM 'Extreme Duty' LCA's. You, Dafreak, and myself. We've all made similar comments regarding them. The arms aren't cheap but do utilize top tier materials and craftmanship. MM knows how important it is to use the best heims you can.

 

[evasive]

I found a really easy way to solve the upper control arm issue.




I removed it and had a Griggs torque arm installed ;-) oke: