TT 04 GT vs C6 Z06!!!!

[04gtstang]

Man those bad boys are fast! I was leaving a car show and saw a C6 Z06 behind me (Black with black rims :rockon: ) leaving also. We get doen the highway and he gets ahead, so I drop 4th when it opens up and cruize past him and give a little wave. Well I get about a car up @ about 75-80MPH, and I slow a bit and right at that time I see his car shake from a hard down shift, so I wail on it (4th). Well before the boost really even comes in hes already catching me LOL. Full boost hits when hes at my rear bumper or so and his pull just slows to a CREEP. And he just holds that slow pull and just creeps on me and @ 120 when I ran out of gear we were dead even and I let off...just as he was catching another gear. I think I hit full boost probably around 85-90MPH.
And just to give you an idea of the pull, he wasnt pulling by me quite this fast...a bit slower (member on here I think....516RWHP cobra) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WsCnpQ5Y0M&mode=related&search= .

Followed him around and back onto the interstate, and tried to get another run it....but it sucked. I bumped my boost up to my "C6 Z06 setting" (9.6ish PSI vs 9PSI...about 15-20RWHP more) and 3 honks I go and hes not read, so I slow down and do it again. 3rd honk we go and I pull MAYBE a bumper from him delaying a hair, and he comes by me while im waiting for full boost to come in (felt like it took forwever...3rd gear 55MPH). Well JUST as its coming in and im at his bumper the freegin guy in the far left lane gets over into my lane right in front of me :mj: ! So I let off a bit and fall in half behind the Z06 about a 1/4 car back and basically cut the other guy off LOL (I know stupid...but I was POd), but I lost my momentum with the swerving and letting off some and by the time I hit 4th he was like a car up..I seemed to be slowing his pull but he let off @ about 105 closer to 1.5 cars ahead. So yea that run sucked...but I didnt break boost or anything, should have...but really didnt think about because I was curious how much the lag effects running a car like that with instant power.
So note to self...brake boost when up against a car like this LOL.

And did I say those things are fast? LOL sick cars, much respect! (BTW I asked if he was stock and he said yes :shrug: )

 

[alaskablkmach]

Nice run they are fast as hell!!!

 

[mineralgrey01gt]

awesome runs

 

[DHG BULLITT]

281+21=302 + said TT kit.

bye bye Z06

 

[BayareaSS]

Good Run!

They are fast for sure. And i believe he was stock

 

[Biggieman]

sounds about right for stock - they are monsters!

 

[mineralrob]

Nice run

 

[04gtstang]

Thanks guys...and yes they are nuts! Cant believe a stock car can run like that...amazing what GM has done!

BUT im not down with getting beat by a stock Z06...SOOOO

Currently I have these (57 trims..around 40 Lb/Min of airflow each)

Upgraded to these (T-61s...61LB/Min each)

(BTW no I didnt just order them after I got beat LOL...they were already on their way well before But perfect timing I must say!)

 

[Fourcam330]

You can make 900HP+ with twin 57s, all you've done in "upgrading" is increase your spool time.

 

[bmfgsxr]

nice looking snails there.. maybe throw a little shot in there to help spool up time.

 

[BeNBadRacing]

Really good runs. C6Zs are sick. I wish I could run across one that wanted to play.

Keep us posted on the turbo upgrade.:thumbsup:

 

[04gtstang]

You can make 900HP+ with twin 57s, all you've done in "upgrading" is increase your spool time.

general rule of thumb is every 10Lb/Min can support 100HP. So in theory the 57s can support a little over 800 flywheel HP. You can push them further..but they just become heat pumps. Simular to what happens with the eatons...just get out of their effency range. Also remember there are different types of 57trim turbos. Some can support 500HP each...so depends on which wheels you have...mine are good for about 400HP each.
For the time being, no Im not pushing the 57s anywhere near their limit really...however these new hotsides should make more power, and due to other factors that made my spoolup atleast 500+ RPM slower than other guys with a twin 57trim turbo setup...spool time should be about the same. But in any case now I dont have to upgrade when I forge the engine...because ill probably take these current T-61s to their max. :thumbsup:

 

[Fourcam330]

general rule of thumb is every 10Lb/Min can support 100HP. So in theory the 57s can support a little over 800 flywheel HP. You can push them further..but they just become heat pumps. Simular to what happens with the eatons...just get out of their effency range. Also remember there are different types of 57trim turbos. Some can support 500HP each...so depends on which wheels you have...mine are good for about 400HP each.
For the time being, no Im not pushing the 57s anywhere near their limit really...however these new hotsides should make more power, and due to other factors that made my spoolup atleast 500+ RPM slower than other guys with a twin 57trim turbo setup...spool time should be about the same. But in any case now I dont have to upgrade when I forge the engine...because ill probably take these current T-61s to their max. :thumbsup:

I've seen more than one 900hp+ twin 57 setup running around, granted they run race gas but that's to be expected at that power level. Regardless, 800HP is enough to dispatch with a stock C6 Z06 so it's really a moot point.

edit: I can think of at least one twin 57 4.6 4v that's made over 1000HP, again on race gas. Hell Dave Beyer's 3v 4.6 made over 700rwhp on straight pump gas with a single 67, it was detuned to 670ish rw.

 

[BayouVette]

when you see those things on the road the regular c6's just dont have the same affect anymore.

 

[SupraSonic]

Instead of putting on the new snails, why don't you just up the boost on your current ones? You're only a few ponies shy from beating one!:shrug:

Thanks guys...and yes they are nuts! Cant believe a stock car can run like that...amazing what GM has done!

BUT im not down with getting beat by a stock Z06...SOOOO

Currently I have these (57 trims..around 40 Lb/Min of airflow each)

Upgraded to these (T-61s...61LB/Min each)

(BTW no I didnt just order them after I got beat LOL...they were already on their way well before But perfect timing I must say!)

 

[RealQuick]

Wow, nice race. Brake boost next time and that will probably give you all the edge you need.

 

[04gtstang]

thanks all for the comments And yep definatly will break boost next time LOL...now I know how much it effects a races outcome haha.

Like I said, you can push the 57s to make plenty of power...but your going to be overspinning the turbos and creating alot of heat. Look at the compressor maps..choose one that will fit your power goals for the future. My current 57s only cost me $500 for both, so thats why I jumped on them. But now I upgraded to better quality units that support more power...and sized them so that they wouldnt run out. Orginally was going with T-70s...but those would run into compresor surge at low RPM...so they were switched out with these.

My main objective here is to make more power without putting more air/much more air into the engine. I want to stay @ 9PSI...fuel system is maxed here anyways. So I want to make more power by improving efficiency And while I may or may not gain some now, you can be assured that these are going to make power a HECK of alot easier when I get into the 800-900+RWHP range. Exhaust restrictions for one play a huge role...the .96 is going to flow ALOT more than my old .63. And that makes a HUGE difference at that power level.

 

[Fourcam330]

thanks all for the comments And yep definatly will break boost next time LOL...now I know how much it effects a races outcome haha.

Like I said, you can push the 57s to make plenty of power...but your going to be overspinning the turbos and creating alot of heat. Look at the compressor maps..choose one that will fit your power goals for the future. My current 57s only cost me $500 for both, so thats why I jumped on them. But now I upgraded to better quality units that support more power...and sized them so that they wouldnt run out. Orginally was going with T-70s...but those would run into compresor surge at low RPM...so they were switched out with these.

My main objective here is to make more power without putting more air/much more air into the engine. I want to stay @ 9PSI...fuel system is maxed here anyways. So I want to make more power by improving efficiency And while I may or may not gain some now, you can be assured that these are going to make power a HECK of alot easier when I get into the 800-900+RWHP range. Exhaust restrictions for one play a huge role...the .96 is going to flow ALOT more than my old .63. And that makes a HUGE difference at that power level.

You understand that an engine is an air pump and that in order to make more power you have to move more air right? Also that boost is a measure of restriction relevant only to the combination it's measured on, so when you swapt to 61s you're going to move more air (which you say you don't want) even at the same boost reading?
You're also going to have major issues hooking at 700rwhp unless you run from a 100 roll, 800-900, well, you get the idea. You can make more power than you can ever hope to put to the ground, with less lag, with the 57s.

 

[04gtstang]

I've seen more than one 900hp+ twin 57 setup running around, granted they run race gas but that's to be expected at that power level. Regardless, 800HP is enough to dispatch with a stock C6 Z06 so it's really a moot point.

edit: I can think of at least one twin 57 4.6 4v that's made over 1000HP, again on race gas. Hell Dave Beyer's 3v 4.6 made over 700rwhp on straight pump gas with a single 67, it was detuned to 670ish rw.

Lets look at a compressor map real quick. 57 trim Garrets.

See those effency islands? And how the effency goes down when you go outside each island away from the center? Well either way your going to loose effiency, but lets go for a real engine producing 900HP on twin 57s. According to an online calculator, and adverage turbo engine producing 900HP is going to consume 108.9 Lb/Min (this is basically real world...you notice that its not 10LB = 100HP. Because some of that power goes to your oil pump, waterpump, accessories, ect. So its not all 100% converted when considered an engine as a whole).
Ok now split that in half for twins. Thats 54.45LB/Min that each turbo MUST supply to the engine. Now plot hat on the map...hmm well your freegin off the map no matter what pressure ratio your running LOL...WAY off. Meaning crappy effiency and overspinning the turbo. Sure it can be done, but its not a good or wise thing to attempt IMO...just giving up ALOT of power and asking for impeller failure. Even the way low ball of 90LB/min divided by 2 = 45 puts your RIGHT on the edge of the outermost island, assuming a 2.3 pressure ratio (19PSI). < 60% effiency.

No thanks ;-)

And just for refrence, here is the T-61 map.

As you can see, same LB/Min consumption puts me around 74% effiency Low ball puts me right on the center island at the boost i would be running.

See what I mean? You cant base what turbos are good enough based on how far other people push theirs. You must do these formulas (that was just general rule of thumb stuff by using a calculator, its always best to do the formulas to just double check. that way you can play with different scenarios.) to determine whats best for you in the long run, and make sure it will work with your current setup :thumbsup:

 

[04gtstang]

You understand that an engine is an air pump and that in order to make more power you have to move more air right? Also that boost is a measure of restriction relevant only to the combination it's measured on, so when you swapt to 61s you're going to move more air (which you say you don't want) even at the same boost reading?
You're also going to have major issues hooking at 700rwhp unless you run from a 100 roll, 800-900, well, you get the idea. You can make more power than you can ever hope to put to the ground, with less lag, with the 57s.

only way its going to supply more air is if the effency goes up on the compressor side...which means the air will be cooler and more compacted. Also means that the turbine blade MAY not have to work as hard to make the boost. But these are two totally different units, so you really cant compare.

But since nothing POST turbo has really changed, my engine isnt going to get anymore air into it, unless like said the effency goes up vs my 57s. Another thing is that since my exhaust pressure will drop with the larger hot side then it may allow better filling of the cylinders and actually let more "fresh air" from the cold side in, per intake cycle. Just SOOO many variables...thats why I said no/not much when refering to added airflow into the engine. Just cant be sure. :beer: