Truth about 5w20 oil and why SVT says no synoils

[Cobra'03]

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181784

I posted this on Stangnet - someone said that SVT told them that the 2003 Cobra was "not designed for synthetic oil", and I said it was baloney, and also stated that the 5w20 recommendation was not done because of "closer tolerances". If you are prepared to read a bit, check out the thread.

 

[Cat Breath]

I've read some of your other posts regarding oils on stangnet. Thanks for edumacting us! Though I think a more appropriate handle, like 'Lube Man' is in order. And to think, I used to beleive we changed our oil 'cause it got dirty!

 

[silvercoffin]

SVT

I am going to listen to SVT who told me directly not to put it in the car until at least 5000 miles if at all. Regardless of how much sense anything else makes. I think I'll listen to the builder and I dont want the dealers to have any excuse for anything that might go wrong.

Heres how it went.

I decided to change my oil at 1000 and brought it to a shop here in NC where I am visiting. I asked for synthetic and they said "Are you sure?" and even recommended that I call Ford and ask first. I still had SVTs number on my cell so I called and they said the same thing as the shop.

SVT SAID that the engine was not designed for synthetic oil and that if I was still going to put it in to at least wait until the car had 5000 miles on it. They recommended more frequent oil changes rather than synthetic oil.

I don't really think it is that big a deal either way, but thats what happened.

Part of the reason I posted was because I was surprised that the dealer started saying that ford called for synthetic on my 01GT but SVT said no Synth for the CObra...

 

[Cobra'03]

Silver: Just curious - Did you actually read the Stangnet thread? And since synoil would be considered a "mod" since SVT has not recommended it, may we assume you will not be doing anything else SVT says not to do, like just about any of the Forum mods?

So, the Ford lubrication expert is quoted as saying they went with 5w20 for emissions and oil savings reasons, yet SVT says change the oil every 1000 miles rather than use synoil? It is not only logically irreconciliable, but flat out hypocritical. SVT has to say no synoil because it certified the car with 5w20, and that is the EPA requirement - I do not see how that could be any clearer.

 

[silvercoffin]

cobra03...again

get a life man

once again you are bad mouthing my replies. Considering all the trouble a few people have had with their 03s I think we should listen to SVT. AND dont start putting words in my mouth or theirs. SVT said "the 03 is not designed for synthetic oil and that if I wanted to spend the extra money it would be better to spend it on more frequent changes rather than Synth."

Just keep your mouth shut if you've got nothing nice to say.unch:

 

[Cobra'03]

Well, I never get rude or insulting, and I did not put words in anyone's mouth - what are you talking about? You seem unwilling or incapable of mentally sparring or accepting a well-stated contention or argument. Popping off so easily may raise your post count, but how does it contribute to this Forum? I let my words speak for themselves, and I let Forum members decide their worth. Grow up a bit and calm down, please.

Now, which problems people are having is attributable to the oil I wonder.....

 

[Cat Breath]

After having read Cobra'03s threads on stangnet regarding lubrication, I am quite confident in labeling him as a subject matter expert. The reason that SVT tells you that you have to use 5W20 or else, is as he has proved, to meet strict EPA certifications. It is not so much that Ford is lying to us about which oil is best as it is big government exerting its power and influence on auto manufacturers.

Cobra'03, I am missing why the EPA is pressuring manufacturers to aviod synoil. I can see why a manufacture might want to avoid it for cost, but does the same wieght synoil delivery worse MPG/emissions over time than a mineral oil?

 

[Daniel Moran]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Ford's new factory fill SAE 5w-20 motor oil (part number XO-5w20-QSP) is a synthetic blend, as is the widely retail marketed Motorcraft Premium 5w-20. If so, why in the world would SVT say no full synthetic in the 03? I'd say they just don't want to contradict corporate policy.

 

[Ripper]

Just my 2 cents on the subject.. Much like tire pressures... Car manufacturers say a lower psi pressure for a smoother ride.. While tire manufactures say higher psi so the tires last longer.. I think it is the same i believe .. ? Synthetic are a heaver oil so less mpg, and just a waste of money.. ?? Reading through the manual on my civic it says that same thing.. 5w30 rec, and flat out says that syn will hurt mpg and just extra money.. ?JMHO? Not 100% if that's true but just wanted to chime in on something.....

 

[Cobra'03]

Originally posted by Cat Breath
After having read Cobra'03s threads on stangnet regarding lubrication, I am quite confident in labeling him as a subject matter expert. The reason that SVT tells you that you have to use 5W20 or else, is as he has proved, to meet strict EPA certifications. It is not so much that Ford is lying to us about which oil is best as it is big government exerting its power and influence on auto manufacturers.

Cobra'03, I am missing why the EPA is pressuring manufacturers to aviod synoil. I can see why a manufacture might want to avoid it for cost, but does the same wieght synoil delivery worse MPG/emissions over time than a mineral oil?

Well, thanks for the vote of confidence! Still not sure where Silvercoffin is coming from, but I for one am willing to forget the whole thing and move on. Can't we all just get along?

I am not sure why EPA takes its position, but here is an educated guess: they want the lower emissions, the lower consumption of fuel, and they want it to be cheap for the average Joe to do so - so they stipulate as they did to keep the prices down. I also think they want to protect the oil manufacturer by keeping demand from the car companies high enough to allow scales of economy of manufacture of the lower vis oils. I really do not believe that the oil companies would have initiated these products on their own - they could have based on current oil technology years ago, but did not.

Re: SVT supports syn bends, but not the real thing - excellent point. Based on SVT's stated position and assuming that a synblend has, say, 20% synoil in it, does that mean that the 2003 Cobra engine was "20% designed for synoil"? Maybe ust the cam lobes can use it, but not the main bearing journals. Starting to see how silly that is and why I posted as I did? You guys are pretty sharp today! Well done!

 

[Doc2003Cobra]

Another owner of a 2003 Cobra had a ticking noise and this was the result: " My service ticket notes excessive cam bearing wear. I was told the reason for this is that the oil ducts through the left head are too small. and since the left head is toward the end of the oil route before re-entering the pan, the lubricated parts are "starved" for oil. The new head that was installed has improved oil duct design so that there should now be adequate oil supply to the lubricated parts on the left head." So this is why I really want to know if there will be a big difference in 5-20 or 5-30. I don't want to use the Ford blend since my understanding is that after a few years, the dino oils gum up the inside of the engine and synthetic doesn't, thanks, Doc.

 

[Chris C]

I just take my car to ford to get my oil changed... that way if anything goes wrong by some act of god :rollseyes: i can blame them for it

 

[THE FLASH]

Ok guys I dont own a 03 yet (it is in the works red fire baby, ya) I do own a 01 vert cobra. I could not access the link to the thread so I have no clue what was said. I call SVT when I bought my 01 snake to ask them about the 5w-20 oil. I could not find or it was hard to find. They told me that the reason for the 5w-20 was strictly for fuel economy and that 5w-30 would work just fine. I ended up using the Mobil 1 synthetic 0w-30. I have been for 16k miles. No complaints here, but my car does not have a blower. I am not a chemist or a lube specialist, but according to GM, corvettes are required to use Mobil 1 synthetic. BMW and mercedes (excuse my spelling) come from the factory with Mobil1 synthetic. I know it is just not the brand (Mobil just won the contracts) it is just the fact that those cars are required to use synthetic. I also saw a show (2 guys garage) about oils and they said the reason why you need to change the oil frequently is due to the fact that the engine burns or uses up all the additives. And that the additives play a major role. Just my .02. I do plan on using Mobil 1 synthetic in my 03 when I get it. I am going to run regular oil in it with a changing frequency of 1500 miles and when I hit 5K, I am going to switch Mobil 1 synthetic. PS, Mobil 1 has a synthetic oil (15w-50) that says it is for high horse power cars and cars with a blower.

JC

 

[Joe Lynch]

I have my 99 engine down for forged rods and pistons right now. 30k miles and 400 drag strip passes, the last 40 of which were on a 100 shot of nitrous. I have run Amsoil 5W-20 for the last two years. There was no measurable wear at the crankshaft or in any of the valve gear. The crosshatch was still visible on the cylinder walls. We checked the bearing journals in several directions and they were all still perfectly round.

I will run it a few thousand miles with non-synthetic and then go back to the 5W-20 synthetic, even with a 150 shot.

The thinner oil will drain back to the pan slightly better than the heavier oil. That is important on a mod motor engine which typically stacks up a lot of oil in the heads. And your valve gear will not like anything heavier than 5W-30, so don't use anything in a mod motor thicker than that.

The engine probably would have been as good wear-wise with the 5W-30, but I know personally that the Amsoil 5W-20 synthetic is sufficient for these engines. I also use it in the 5.4L SuperCrew tow truck but will never have that engine down to look at the wear.

The trend is going to be toward thinner lubricants with lower losses, which is good, at least directionally, up to the point of increasing wear. My little test wasn't long enough to show any wear. My opinion is that it will take a 100k mile test to see the differences between 5W-20 and 5W-30. Even that may not be long enough.

Joe Lynch

 

[ADR]

I just take my car to ford to get my oil changed... that way if anything goes wrong by some act of god : i can blame them for it

Me to, I just take it in every 3000 for oil change , multi point inspection and tire rotation, I was told that ford uses a semi synthetic anyway.

 

[Shadowgray03]

I think when ford says not to use syn, they assume that your going to use syn and change at 7500 miles. I knoiw that I switched to syn in my truck but still change it at 3k miles and I will do the same for the cobra. Now, ford has an oil specification which the recommend any oil you use should meet or exceed. If the syn oil you want to use meet or exceeds those recomendations then why would ford tell you not to use it? Additionally if it met those specifications then they could not bring up any warranty isses either.

 

[DEADLYSVT03]

After all the chatter about mineral oil vs. syn oil I really think it's a matter preference. Any reputable brand of motor oil ie. Mobil, Exxon, Castrol, Penzoil, etc. make the same claims that they meet or exceed the manufacturer's specs. Before I decided to switch to Mobil1 syn for my Cobra I did a lot of asking around. My wife's Camaro SS requires syn oil from the factory. My mechanic whom I trust immensely gave me a big yes when I asked him. I switched to Mobil 1 at my 1500 mile oil change and knock on wood no problems whatsoever. I personally think that anyone that say's the motor is not designed for syn oil needs thier head examined. Lastly the idea of the tick in the head due to the fact that the oil is not flowing properly may be true, but I understand that syn oil flows faster than regular oil to it and I still have the tick, just not as bad as I used to....that's why I bought the 7/36,000 warranty...

'03 satin silver coupe
Mac cat back
Steeda tri ax
upr stuff
Mgw stuff
Cobra mats
Cobra door sills
Shinoda chin spoiler
blacked out fascia letters

 

[harry gilbert]

I'm not a lubrication expert, but offer the following thoughts: Ford has warranted my Cobra, specifying a certain oil. If they thought for one minute that the oil wouldn't properly protect the engine, do you think they would have continued to recommend that oil? They would have done something else to get EPA approvals. I'm confident that using the Ford recommended oil will be OK, and if I guess wrong, Ford won't be able to weasel out of warranty coverage on account of my not following their recommendations.

I'd rather use the Ford oil, and change it frequently. That way, I replenish the additives, and flush away contaminants and acids that could damage the motor internals. I see no advantage to going to pure synoils, whose major advantage (as I recall from their ads) is longer periods between changes.

If my drivetrain fails, I want to be able to show the service writer that the car was serviced at the prescribed intervals by the SVT dealer. That MIGHT buy me some extra consideration if a failure comes just after expiration of warranty. It HAS worked for me in the past.

Speculation as to Ford's motives gets me nothing. Following the recommendations gets me some peace of mind. As a professional engineer, I have to rely on the judgment and expertise of the engineers that designed the car and made the specs rather than second guessing that judgment.

 

[Cobra-R]

Originally posted by Cobra'03
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181784

I posted this on Stangnet - someone said that SVT told them that the 2003 Cobra was "not designed for synthetic oil", and I said it was baloney, and also stated that the 5w20 recommendation was not done because of "closer tolerances". If you are prepared to read a bit, check out the thread.

My question to SVT would be: What "design" did they specifically implement into the 03 engine to cause sythetic to not be compatible? (wonder if you will get anything but babbleing)

What did they do different to the 00R engines so they could use 15w50 mobil 1 right from the factory in it?

I will be switching to mobil one in my 03 at the first oil change.

 

[LSR]

non-synoil vs. synoil

My $.02

Everytime someone takes there car in for a problem, you can bet that SVT is called.

Whatever weight oil the owners manual suggest and SVT says to use is what one might want to use if one expects to recieve warranty work.

If something happens to ones motor internally and snyoil is found, then that person has just gave them a legal reason not to warranty you car.

Fully synoil would probably warrant the same treatment as a mod. and mods. of course voids warranty's, this will give a legal out to say SVT/Dealers taking full responsibility for any damages.

This is sort of like a person that has mods. on there car and complain about having problems, again the maufacturer & dealer is off the hook when it comes to engine malfunctions etc. when a mod. is found, it points to the car being used for something not reccommended, at least this is there excuse when dealing with a car that they don't get enough trianing for, and again a legal way out.