Timing area weird noise: (not the tick, not a rattle)

[Chris_Red_V8]

New motor, now 500 miles into break in without significant issue (could use a neutral profile correction). However since I've had it running, there's been an odd noise, varying in volume with oil temperature and runtime coming from the timing cover area.

It can be subtle to very loud (enough to hear over a dual disc noisy raceclutch and exhaust). Mostly coming off revs.

The noise sounds like a whirring, whining, metallic moaning noise that follows RPM. At first I thought it had to be the water pump, but now I'm not so sure. It definitely seems like its coming from the timing cover itself. I'll test the car soon without the belt on, but I don't believe the noise to be the pump.

I'm unsure what in the timing system could make such a noise? if it were chain slack, I'd expect a rattle, worn guides maybe? Solenoids?

Here's a couple quick videos:


Timing is made up of:
new main chains
MMR crank sprocket
Boss 302/CJ main tensioners
Stock GT secondary tensioners
MMR secondary timing chains
Factory GT phasers
13+ phaser solenoids (removed the 11 and installed new fittings)
Boss 302 Cams/heads/etc

Couple videos (listen for the higher pitches, I'll try to get better video):

[video=youtube;Kf_U0VSTnd8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf_U0VSTnd8[/video] - no revving, but you can clearly hear it, almost like a buzz.

[video=youtube;Msao5xlt5KM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Msao5xlt5KM[/video] - here its not as loud, but you can hear it follow the revs, especially on revdown (listen for higher pitched noises)

 

[GBCoyote]

How many miles on the chain tensioners?

 

[Chris_Red_V8]

They're new 0 mile units (outside the 500 break in miles)

Next steps are to pull all the covers, drain the oil, inspect, change oil and hope something obvious is under there

 

[Torchy]

Maybe try stethoscope first?

 

[Chris_Red_V8]

I can do that. My wife is a doctor so should be able to get a hold of an older one. However it will just help me pinpoint, I'll still likely have to open her up to see what I'm dealing with/ repairing

 

[Chris_Red_V8]

An update:

I haven't pulled the covers yet, but I did go around the motor with a screwdriver. There's some mild clacking on the passenger side valvecover (sounds like lifters, or possibly chain related), but I didn't have anyone to press the throttle while I tested.

I did get a more clear video:
[video=youtube;sKHiVaDDAhw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKHiVaDDAhw[/video]

you can still hear it most on revdown. Its gets much louder at times but I just can't figure this one out. I'll try to get the valve covers removed tonight.

 

[Vert]

Did u take the oil cap off to help with the noise of the location.

 

[Chris_Red_V8]

Yeah it didn't help much. Couldn't see much, the secondary tensioner looked fine

 

[Billgluckman]

Could it be the timing chain rubbing the guides?

edit: i just listened to the first vid, have you ruled out the alternator? I've heard them sound just like that.

 

[Chris_Red_V8]

I have not ruled out the alternator, I can pull the belt off and see. The noise level does follow engine temperature as it warms up, so I had assumed that oil temperature (and viscosity) had some play here.

However I'll try the belt test soon.

 

[Chris_Red_V8]

So I took the covers off and couldn't find much. The cam lobes all look great, the secondary chain and tensioners look fine on both sides. I can very slightly pull up on the chain on the secondary tensioner but not enough to relieve pressure against the guide so they are nice and tight even without the tensioner pumped up.

I took the belt off and spun all the pulleys and all are whisper quiet.

I checked each lifter/follower and the unloaded ones can move very slightly unpumped and I believe that to be normal and expected. Can't see much of the main chain yet it appears to be tight and appropriately tensioned.

I guess next step is the front cover. There's no possibility oil pump or main bearing(s) could contribute to noise like that is there?

 

[Blazer707@TBR]

Did you ever run the engine without the belt and see if it goes away?

 

[Chris_Red_V8]

I tried pulling the belt and no noise when spinning by hand. However I can try it without the belt once I have it back together

 

[03 SeRpEnT]

I tried pulling the belt and no noise when spinning by hand. However I can try it without the belt once I have it back together

Yes you need to run without the belt to rule out accessories. I literally pulled valvecovers for a similar sound on mine after it started one day, saw nothing out of the ordinary. Pull belt off and cranked and it was gone. Checked all accessories and Alternator was only one that seemed to have a little roughness when turned, replaced it and poof, it was fixed.

 

[Chris_Red_V8]

I'll give it a shot. I could feel something in the alternator pulley but I thought it was the one way clutch. It turned smooth and without noise but will fire it up and see

 

[kona 199]

are u running the same timing chain cover? i think after 2011 ford made a few small changes.

 

[Chris_Red_V8]

I have the original GT timing cover (I think, I may have bought one a few years ago)

 

[Chris_Red_V8]

Pulled the belt and ran the motor to warm, but noise persists. Rules out the FEAD belt system. It definitely starts once the water temps reach 140 or so.

 

[7upstang]

Is there an ATI balancer or aftermarket one?

 

[Chris_Red_V8]

I have a oem replacement one (it does appear remanufactured) that I installed new with the motor (my original one had signs of wear i wasn't comfortable with).

What could make noise there?