Time to Take A Citizenship Quiz

[05 Roush]

Let's have some fun today. I'd like to propose a simple citizenship quiz in light of all the fun this country's going to be having over the next several weeks. So, let's propose a simple scenario:

Jack is a UK citizen. He falls in love with Jill, a United States citizen. They marry, and Jack and Jill decide to live in the UK. 3 months later, Jill gets pregnant. 9 months later on a trip to the United States to visit Jill's parents, Jill gives birth to James at an American hospital in New York.

So the question is, which country is James the primary citizen of?

Before you answer the question in the poll, here are some details on citizenship as it pertains to United Kingdom...

The British Citizenship Act of 1948 states you are a UK citizen by:

• birth in the UK or a colony (exceptions for children of 'enemy aliens' and diplomats). The immigration status of the parents was irrelevant.
• naturalisation or registration in the UK or a colony or protectorate
• legitimate descent from a CUKC father for children born elsewhere. Only the first generation acquired British nationality automatically. Second and subsequent generations could do so only if born outside the Commonwealth (or Ireland) and registered within 12 months of birth or if the father was in Crown Service.
• incorporation of territory (no persons ever acquired CUKC this way from 1949)
• declaration
• marriage

And here is some information on citizenship based on immigration laws of the United States...

A person is born as a citizen of the United States by:

• birth, either within the territory of the United States or to U.S. citizen parents, or
• naturalization

One more thing I'd like to add is most countries determine primary citizenship based on the natural citizenship of the father.

 

[FordSVTFan]

James was born in the United States and that is a grant of U.S. Citizenship via Jus Soli. His mother is a U.S. Citizen, that gives him the option of claiming U.S. citizenship via Jus Sanguinus had he been born outside the U.S.

Your hypothetical does not indicate that the child has returned to the UK, however, he is entitled to register as a UK citizen as his father is a UK citizen.

That being said, the U.S. does NOT recognize dual citizenship, therefore if the child or his parents choose to claim U.S. Citizenship that is his only citizenship.

At this point he would have a choice of legal citizenship as he can lay claim to both U.S. and U.K. citizenship.

 

[05 Roush]

That being said, the U.S. does NOT recognize dual citizenship, therefore if the child or his parents choose to claim U.S. Citizenship that is his only citizenship.

At this point he would have a choice of legal citizenship as he can lay claim to both U.S. and U.K. citizenship.

According to U.S. State Department, the U.S. in fact does recognize dual citizenship, although it is discouraged:

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship.Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html


The U.S. is not the only country involved in the question of citizenship. The U.K. also recognizes dual citizenship:

You do not need to give up your present citizenship or nationality to become a British citizen.

Many countries will not let you have two nationalities (dual nationality). If you become a British citizen and are a national of a country which does not allow dual nationality, the authorities of that country may either regard you as having lost that nationality or may refuse to recognise your new nationality. Before you apply for British citizenship you may wish to check what your position would be with the authorities of the country of which you are a citizen.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/dualnationality/

The other important thing to note here is that England is still a monarchy and citizens are still "subjects", whereas the U.S. is a Republic where they are not "subjects" but rather citizens.

 

[05 Roush]

Also to clarify, this poll specifically questions citizenship at the time of birth

 

[05 Roush]

Here's another scenario that might shine some light on the subject of dual nationality:

Let's say Bob and Sally are U.S. citizens visiting Germany. Sally is pregnant at the time. Their daughter is born in a German hospital on German soil. At the time of birth would Sally be a U.S. citizen, a German citizen, or both?

According to the U.S. State department Sally would have dual nationality at the time of birth:

DUAL NATIONALITY
Dual nationality can occur as the result of a variety of circumstances. The automatic acquisition or retention of a foreign nationality, acquired, for example,by birth in a foreign country or through an alien parent, does not affect U.S. citizenship. It is prudent, however, to check with authorities of the other country to see if dual nationality is permissible under local law. Dual nationality can also occur when a person is naturalized in a foreign state without intending to relinquish U.S. nationality and is thereafter found not to have lost U.S. citizenship: the individual consequently may possess dual nationality. While recognizing the existence of dual nationality and permitting Americans to have other nationalities, the U.S. Government also recognizes the problems which it may cause. Claims of other countries upon dual-national U.S. citizens often place them in situations where their obligations to one country are in conflict with the laws of the other. In addition, their dual nationality may hamper efforts to provide U.S. diplomatic and consular protection to them when they are abroad.

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html

 

[Ryan]

That being said, the U.S. does NOT recognize dual citizenship, therefore if the child or his parents choose to claim U.S. Citizenship that is his only citizenship.

I've seen a handful of dual citizens. Most have been UK/US or Israeli/US.

 

[motoman991]

This is how all the illegals get their kids to be legal citizens.

 

[iCEMANSGCCC]

That being said, the U.S. does NOT recognize dual citizenship, therefore if the child or his parents choose to claim U.S. Citizenship that is his only citizenship.

Yes it does, lol

 

[tistan]

My niece is kind of opposite of your scenario. My sister was married to a Scottish man, and they were living in England when her daughter was born. My niece is an English citizen, and my sister had to apply for dual citizenship for her daughter. I doubt that the answer is either of the dual citizenships. I would think the answer is James is a primary citizen of the US until his parents goes through the paperwork to make him a UK citizen.

 

[05 Roush]

My niece is kind of opposite of your scenario. My sister was married to a Scottish man, and they were living in England when her daughter was born. My niece is an English citizen, and my sister had to apply for dual citizenship for her daughter. I doubt that the answer is either of the dual citizenships. I would think the answer is James is a primary citizen of the US until his parents goes through the paperwork to make him a UK citizen.

So, why do you think that dual citizenship is not possible in this scenario? Keep in mind you usually have to denounce one of your citizenships to become 100% allegiant to another country.

 

[tistan]

I don't think you would automatically have a dual citizenship. I think James parents would have to apply for a dual citizenship.

 

[05 Roush]

I don't think you would automatically have a dual citizenship. I think James parents would have to apply for a dual citizenship.

Citizenship is granted at birth by statute. Most dual citizens I know have to renounce one of their citizenships, or let the secondary citizenship lapse once they reach adult age (in the U.S. it's usually your 21st birthday).

 

[musclefan21]

.

That being said, the U.S. does NOT recognize dual citizenship, therefore if the child or his parents choose to claim U.S. Citizenship that is his only citizenship.

.

Yes it does! ;-)

 

[Jefe]

Citizen of the U.S with dual Citizenship with the U.K