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2020+ Shelby GT500 Mustang
Thoughts on DCT
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<blockquote data-quote="tt335ci03cobra" data-source="post: 16245869" data-attributes="member: 68944"><p>In the conditions the demon went 9.65@140, yes. In average conditions 130-135.</p><p></p><p>The night/track the demon went 9.65@140, i’d Imagine a 2019 5.0 gt 10a could have gone 11.50@123 to give an idea of how opportune it was.</p><p></p><p>Iirc mid 50° range, sticky sub sea level track, lots of prep, etc.</p><p></p><p>I think 10.75@137 will be common enough to say it’s a solid near hero run.</p><p></p><p>I think 10.5@140 will be the eventual hero run. Iirc zr1 went 10.2@136 but that’s a lot of aero and an 8a.</p><p></p><p>The non carbon aero gt500’s will trap probably 3-5mph higher than the aero pack ones imo.</p><p></p><p>Big reason being I think the 760 is a soft rating much like the 2013 gt500’s 662 or the 03’s 390.</p><p></p><p>Demons claim 840 and make 760whp</p><p></p><p>I think the fords will follow in the bullitt, gt, and gt350’s footsteps of 10-12% drivetrain loss tops.</p><p></p><p>480hp Bullitts are making 435-450whp.</p><p>526hp gt350’s are making 460-485whp.</p><p>460hp 18+ 5.0 10a are making 415whp</p><p>460hp 18+ 5.0 6m are making 430whp.</p><p></p><p>I’m thinking:</p><p>760hp 20 gt500 will make 720whp.</p><p></p><p>•12psi 2.65 TVS and 9.5/1 5.2L with 8k rpm is well beyond a 760hp combo. 7psi voodoo 5.2’s albeit 12/1 iirc are making 750whp. 7 vs 12psi is much more drastic than 9.5 vs 12/1 compression.</p><p>•dct’s don’t sap up hp like auto’s do. There’s no where near the thermal loss or fluid exchange issues like an auto.</p><p></p><p>•The dct drivetrain in a gt500 could be about 40tq/55hp to fully turn 8k rpm maybe more since its also spinning some heavy brakes. An a8 auto drivetrain probably needs 70tq/85hp to fully spin to 7k rpm.</p><p></p><p>I don’t personally buy the % loss because the driven parts don’t get heavier or harder to turn as you increase hp. If they did, going up 1psi of boost at a time wouldn’t be as linear to calculate whp with. Also why are 500hp cars with manuals seemingly only losing about 30-40hp just like 300-400hp cars with similar manuals did... 2017 5.0’s have basically the same drivetrain loss as 2018’s. The engines are obviously slightly under rated in both applications by 15-20hp, but additionally, the trans, driveshaft, diff, wheels and tires are close to the same. Same goes for a 2010 4.6 mustang gt manual making 275whp on a 315hp rating. It takes torque to spin that stuff. It doesn’t magically take additional torque to spin that stuff or translate a higher hp cars power to the road. These drive trains aren’t sloppy either to where power may be escaping do to poor reinforcement of hard parts or insufficient clutches etc.</p><p></p><p>Put this dct in a demon and I bet it runs 9.25@145+ Halo run.</p><p></p><p>I think the absolutely fastest gt500 scenario would be a carbon fiber wheel setup on a base aero car but that’s not worth the $18k. Buy some $5-6k very light after market wheels and be done with it instead</p><p></p><p>Thing about spinning to 8k rpm is yes you have to spin a flywheel and clutch faster, but the engine is also more accurate and efficient at scavenging and clearing itself out up there as well. Engines are the least efficient at low to mid rpm for power production. Half the time the cycles are incomplete by some percent and the fuel doesn’t even fully burn.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tt335ci03cobra, post: 16245869, member: 68944"] In the conditions the demon went 9.65@140, yes. In average conditions 130-135. The night/track the demon went 9.65@140, i’d Imagine a 2019 5.0 gt 10a could have gone 11.50@123 to give an idea of how opportune it was. Iirc mid 50° range, sticky sub sea level track, lots of prep, etc. I think 10.75@137 will be common enough to say it’s a solid near hero run. I think 10.5@140 will be the eventual hero run. Iirc zr1 went 10.2@136 but that’s a lot of aero and an 8a. The non carbon aero gt500’s will trap probably 3-5mph higher than the aero pack ones imo. Big reason being I think the 760 is a soft rating much like the 2013 gt500’s 662 or the 03’s 390. Demons claim 840 and make 760whp I think the fords will follow in the bullitt, gt, and gt350’s footsteps of 10-12% drivetrain loss tops. 480hp Bullitts are making 435-450whp. 526hp gt350’s are making 460-485whp. 460hp 18+ 5.0 10a are making 415whp 460hp 18+ 5.0 6m are making 430whp. I’m thinking: 760hp 20 gt500 will make 720whp. •12psi 2.65 TVS and 9.5/1 5.2L with 8k rpm is well beyond a 760hp combo. 7psi voodoo 5.2’s albeit 12/1 iirc are making 750whp. 7 vs 12psi is much more drastic than 9.5 vs 12/1 compression. •dct’s don’t sap up hp like auto’s do. There’s no where near the thermal loss or fluid exchange issues like an auto. •The dct drivetrain in a gt500 could be about 40tq/55hp to fully turn 8k rpm maybe more since its also spinning some heavy brakes. An a8 auto drivetrain probably needs 70tq/85hp to fully spin to 7k rpm. I don’t personally buy the % loss because the driven parts don’t get heavier or harder to turn as you increase hp. If they did, going up 1psi of boost at a time wouldn’t be as linear to calculate whp with. Also why are 500hp cars with manuals seemingly only losing about 30-40hp just like 300-400hp cars with similar manuals did... 2017 5.0’s have basically the same drivetrain loss as 2018’s. The engines are obviously slightly under rated in both applications by 15-20hp, but additionally, the trans, driveshaft, diff, wheels and tires are close to the same. Same goes for a 2010 4.6 mustang gt manual making 275whp on a 315hp rating. It takes torque to spin that stuff. It doesn’t magically take additional torque to spin that stuff or translate a higher hp cars power to the road. These drive trains aren’t sloppy either to where power may be escaping do to poor reinforcement of hard parts or insufficient clutches etc. Put this dct in a demon and I bet it runs 9.25@145+ Halo run. I think the absolutely fastest gt500 scenario would be a carbon fiber wheel setup on a base aero car but that’s not worth the $18k. Buy some $5-6k very light after market wheels and be done with it instead Thing about spinning to 8k rpm is yes you have to spin a flywheel and clutch faster, but the engine is also more accurate and efficient at scavenging and clearing itself out up there as well. Engines are the least efficient at low to mid rpm for power production. Half the time the cycles are incomplete by some percent and the fuel doesn’t even fully burn. [/QUOTE]
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