T56 fast shifting gear lockout

[Fosters]

The car is an 04 mach1 with a 2000 cobra R T56 - the 2.97 1st gear version. I had raced the car a lot before and after the tranny swap (back in 05), after, I had all sorts of problems that I almost solved, but one is still left. I moved to MN where I didn't touch the car for 6 years, but now I'm back in AZ and need to get this thing figured out. Here is the background info:

The problem: trying to shift the car fast causes it to lock me out of gear. It happens more often at high rpm, and it almost always only happens when the tranny is hot. If I let it cool down, I can usually make a pass and be able to row thru all gears. If it gets hot, I can't get into any gear at high rpm/shifting fast. It does not grind going into any gear shifting normally; it doesn't grind when cold and shifting fast either.

I've tried 3 different quadrants - Maximum motorsports, steeda double hook, and steeda quick release. Currently the quick release one is on.

I've had a spec stage 2 clutch that wouldn't adjust properly in any way shape or form, pp kept over extending, dead clutch pedal, etc. Took it out, put a stock 03 cobra clutch, life is good (no problems other than the fast shifting lockout)

I have an MM firewall adjuster, right now it's almost all of the way out to get the engagement of the pedal off the floor.

I've tried stock and adjustable cables, currently adjustable one is on.

I've tried different fluids, currently on Royal Purple synthetic.

I have little to no TOB noise (my car is fairly loud). I have not done the lethal TOB sleeve, though I seem to remember reading that if the sleeve was cracked it could cause the fast shifting lockout problem.

The car has an MGW shifter, and quite honestly I don't like the shifting as much as I liked the 3650 with a pro5.0 and triax handle... Had that tranny not blew up I would still be driving that.

The flywheel has been resurfaced once after the spec 2 crap was taken out.

The questions:

1. Is it possible that a cracked sleeve manifests itself (more) when the tranny is hot than when cold?

2. What is the anti-venom mod I keep reading about? I found a bunch of posts saying it was stickied, but I might be blind - don't see it up there?

3. I keep reading also about "shimming the transmission" - what would need to be shimmed/where/how much?

4. Any other areas I should be looking at? I've had 3 shops so far adjust the damn thing and still no go.

The T6060 isn't in the budget right now, or I'd be all over it just for the OD gear alone...

 

[frank5o]

I have the same problem with my cobra. Only in third though when hot. Basically I have to wait a second or two or i get locked out. I have also tried many things ( fluid, clutch). At this point im thinking T56's are just hard to shift when hot.

 

[Fosters]

Meh, I'm not convinced since it seems the majority of people don't have these issues, and some are easily fixed. Or maybe we're the ones trying to shift faster than the T56 gods want us to... Who knows, doesn't hurt to ask though.

 

[frank5o]

I hear ya. I'm gonna try the anti venom mod this weekend. Its not in a sticky but should be on the second page of driveline. Let you know how it goes.

 

[frank5o]

Ok so I did the anti venom mod. The trans feels less sticky. Kind of slides in and out of gear better. Unfortunately the weather is no good and I could only go for a short trip. I will post back when I get a chance to get it up to temp. Otherwise I think the mod is worth trying.

 

[Fosters]

Sweet. Found the details on it - a long thread - but after like 9 pages I still couldn't figure out if people had to remove the trans or not. Did you remove yours or were you able to get at the bolt with swivels/short sockets?

 

[frank5o]

Did it with the trans in. I removed the rear trany mount bolts so it would sag a bit. I used a shallow 24 with a u joint, a 3/8 drive socket would be ideal, but i used a 1/2 inch drive with a 3/8 step down. Its an easy job if your used to messing with tight spots.

 

[Fosters]

Did the anti-venom mod as well. It is considerably smoother as far as normal shifting goes, but the lockout issue is definitely still there. Trying to shift fast it argues with me like a bad mother in law.

 

[b_dike]

Same issues for me on the lock out... sometimes going into 4th but mostly just in 3rd.

Subn for answers

 

[ctgreddy]

imo that trans is gonna have to get taken out and gone thru, are ALL the gears locked out when hot op? could be the dogs messing up as i've heard when they get broken or cracked they can lock the trans in a gear and i've also heard they can lock you out as well.

also, i have a pro 5.0 base with a upr handle, if you're interested in trading the mgw .

 

[Wicked46]

Look into a WOT box. Helped me out a ton when I had the T-56 in my car

 

[Fosters]

imo that trans is gonna have to get taken out and gone thru, are ALL the gears locked out when hot op? could be the dogs messing up as i've heard when they get broken or cracked they can lock the trans in a gear and i've also heard they can lock you out as well.

also, i have a pro 5.0 base with a upr handle, if you're interested in trading the mgw .

Yep, all of the gears lock out when hot; and all of the gears work smooth when cold.

@Wicked46: Are you talking about this? WOT Box - N2MB Racing

While that might help, one of the reasons I'm guessing it won't is that it also happens when simply shifting fast. I can stab the clutch and shift fast at 3000 rpm, without holding the gas down, and if the tranny is hot, it will still lock me out of gear or be extremely notchy.

I almost wish I could spray nitrous into the transmission to cool it down. :whine:

 

[nanastymach1]

Yes.....get a wot box for 200 and it will be the best money u ever spent using the no lift shift feature...It cuts the ignition for that split second which makes the trans shift as if the car is not even running while u hold the pedal to the floor .....best/cheapest mod I ever did

 

[Fosters]

So going along with the theory that the input shaft doesn't slow down fast enough and thus it locks me out - is there anything mechanically that can be changed or adjusted to ensure a disconnect? I don't see how the tr3650 could slow down enough and the t56 can't, or even how some t56's can do it just fine but this one is more, umm, free spirited like that...

Can the clutch fork be shimmed in any way or maybe something done to the pivot point? Are the clutch forks prone to bending? Is it possible it's something with the pilot bearing - any way to troubleshoot that? The TOB has been changed out with new ones each time, I don't think the pilot bearing was ever changed out...

 

[Wicked46]

The clutch fork itself CAN'T be shimmed but the pivot ball that it sits on can be. I forget what company sells them, but there are adjustable pivot balls out there on the market. Going from a 3650 to a T56 is apples to oranges. I had a 2002 GT with the 3650 and when I bought my cobra I hated the T56 initially. They ARE a hard trans to get used to and shift. It's just the nature on the T56.

Going back o your shifter..... The MGW is a notchy shifter but one that I liked on my set-up. You could go back to the Pro 5.0 with an MGW handle and give that a go. A lot of people like them on the T56. Lastly, ditch that adjustable clutch cable and stick with the OEM cable (and never look back). Not only will the adjustable cable fail on you, but its also not needed with your adjustable quadrant.

 

[20SVT03]

I have the same issue going on but I notice this when speed shifting into 2nd and 3rd at high rpm. Last weekend i was at the track and my first pass I shifted into all gears with no effort but even with an 45 min cool down between, my next two pass I could not get it into 2nd. I used to only have this problem in 3rd when I had 3.55's but when I went to 3.73's I have it more in 2nd. I have a spec 3 with stock flywheel and I was starting to think maybe my clutch was slipping as it got hot or that maybe the synchros are done, but I have no problems like everyone else says until the trans is hot. My real issue with trying to diag this concern is the area I live in, I can't just do wot passes without fear of cops or running into another car. Also there is no reason to speed shift into 4th at 110+ mph. This problem is putting all of my future upgrades on hold because I don't know if I'm tearing my trans apart and rebuilding it, going to a auto trans or upgrade to a better manual trans.

 

[10sec89]

A oil change on the trans. and aWOT box will help, but when I was having hot shift problems it was my clutch not releasing properly. I tried everything, then installed a new clutch and the problem was gone. I have since rebuilt the trans since mine got locked in 4th and broke he shift keys. I also added a WOT bx and it's like heaven now. I can shift this thing foot to the floor as quick as an auto now. I will try and post a link to a 3-4th shift at 90mph it's barely a blip. Loving this T-56 now!
Oct 21, 2012 12:12pm | Facebook

 

[WannaWhine]

Hate to bump and old thread but would really like to get any updates feedback on this issue.

Last time out at the track I found my car locking me out on the 2nd and sometimes 3rd gear, normal driving it shifts fine. My car doesn't have any clutch adjustment so I was thinking of checking the clutch out and maybe after an adjustable setup. Also been heavily considering the wotbox but was worried about some of the negative comments I have read.

 

[TonyG2]

I have the same 2000R T56 as the OP, and had similar lock out problems at high RPMs I wasted a lot of money on clutches, flywheels, shifters, quadrants, cables, fluids, bellhousing alignment, pivot ball adjustment, etc. My problem was internal, b/c the only thing that cured it was a rebuild. I went a bit further and got 3rd and 4th faceplated for good measure. In hindsight, I should have ditched it and got a magnum T56 or just have gone auto.

 

[biggair1]

Sounds like your synchro's are getting worn. They are tapered where they meet and one side has a sandpaper like surface. It is designed to bring the gear and the shaft to the same speed to allow the gear to engage. When worn it will still work when slowly shifting but fast shifts won't grab fast enough to sync speeds. A total lockout would probably be the syncro keys.