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2011-2014 Mustangs
Driveline/Suspension
Suspension Tech: Bring It!
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<blockquote data-quote="BMR Tech" data-source="post: 13781603" data-attributes="member: 124691"><p>They often do, and often don't. It depends on a few things. Springs, shocks, struts, launch style/rpm, etc.</p><p></p><p>I could best answer this, if I saw a video of the car. IMO, once a car gets past mid 11's with a manual trans....they need an ARB (this is generic, but close).. With an Auto, they typically start becoming a good investment when you get into the 10's, solidly.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's tough. I would need to know what the car is doing. It is very hard to blindly recommend additional parts, other than those listed, if I do not know how the car is reacting. If I had to blindly guess....adjustable front struts, UCA in the upper position, LCA in the top of the 3 holes...and some weight removal. That would do well. I think tuning would provide just as much improvement, as well as launch technique. Of course, the "system" or "package" is what makes it work at the end of the day.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually, I rank them similar. When installing aftermarket suspension components, I HIGHLY recommend the axle being perfectly centered at static ride-height. When the axle is pushed/bias to one side...it puts strain into multiple suspension and drive train components; no bueno!</p><p></p><p>Same for pinion angle. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You can torque a floating style bushing/sleeve however you wish. Of course, we always tell people to TQ them loaded....but there are a few reasons behind this. When you install aftermarket UCA/LCA/PHR etc....the ONLY bolt that NEEDS to be torqued at TRUE ride-height/load...is the rear most UCA bolt to the differential.</p><p></p><p>For your car, I recommend starting in the middle position of the BMR Relo Brackets. It is usually the best position. Not always, though. </p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>****THOSE READING**** </strong>Speaking of torquing at ride-height. When you have jackstands under your A-Arms, and rear axle....the suspension is NOT LOADED fully. <em>It is partially loaded.</em> You cannot fully load the suspension / achieve static ride-height.....without having the full weight of the car sit on the front and rear tires. :beer:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Currently available, if I personally had to pick, I would do the Eibach 11+ Adjustables. Bang for the buck, and just really good performing parts. I'm not huge on their springs, but, their bars are nice.</p><p></p><p>We are going to release ours sometime this year. We have taken so long, for a good reason. :rolling:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ouch, that is a little more complicated than I expected. That question is a little too broad. I would say, set the car up for its primary use first....then adjust the mod list from there. You can have a GREAT auto-x set-up....then swap rear tires and unbolt the front sway bar, loosen front struts, and go fast from a roll or a drag strip. It's actually easy.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hmmm... It would take me atleast 10,000 words.</p><p></p><p>This should help.....but it is very general/basic.</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]536266[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hmm. BRM springs? Never heard of 'em!</p><p></p><p>It's okay, I am still "feeling" it from New Years, too. :beer:</p><p></p><p>So - everything is stock, except the <strong>BMR</strong> Springs....right? If so, then you honestly may need to replace the front struts to cure your issue. Not really sure why some people experience this, and some do not. I would say that most do, but some don't realize or pay attention. </p><p></p><p>If you cannot decide on struts, I would be happy to assist you.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>LCA Relos:</strong> Here's the deal. GENERALLY speaking....you want to multiply the amount you drop the car, by 1.5 to 2...to get the amount which you want to lower the LCA down. This is just from experience....and I am NOT saying everyone needs to do so. For example, if you drop the car 1"....a 2" LCA drop is typically the best way to go. For a larger drop, I see that the drop X 1.5 seems to be more realistic. Of course, this is just a function of the geometry/properties of suspension movement. </p><p></p><p>*A lot of this depends on the position of the UCA, as well. With a BMR UCA Mount...using the UPPER most position....the 1.5 or 2 factor is almost always perfect... For those reading, our LCA positions are 2", 3" and 4" from the factory mounting point.</p><p></p><p>It goes SOOO much deeper - but this will get people to an excellent starting point. You won't see anyone else, ever, before I just typed this.....tell you / post that info. If they did, I told them over the phone. These are the type of things I have to conjure up, because I speak to an astronomical amount of people each and every day. At the end of the day, LCA angle needs to be adjusted to see what works best. That is always better than anything I can tell someone.</p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Adjustable UCA: </strong> This relates to the LCA mounting point. On a lowered car, I ALWAYS like to see the stock, or upper most position on the BMR UCA Mount, be utilized....while using LCA Brackets to adjust for maximized traction. We are likely the only company that specifically designs our upper mounting point on our UCA Bracket, for a lowered car. It is actually raised slightly, compared to stock.</p><p></p><p>The lower position on our UCA Mount, this is almost always reserved (recommendaed by me) for people who have a stock ride-height car, AND NO LCA Brackets. That said, I do have people who experience awesome results on a lowered car, using the lower position on the UCA mount, with the top hole on the BMR brackets.....but it's not optimal to mix. That results in a much to severe Anti-Squat setting.</p><p></p><p>Moral - Stock height, use BMR UCA Mount in lower hole / no relos. Lowered, use upper spot on BMR mount, with relos. </p><p></p><p><strong>Pinion Angle: </strong> First off, I want to post this. Everyone should use this....it has been a life saver for me. Ignore anything else you see, this is what you do. The debate comes into play, when talking about "what" to set it at...</p><p>[ATTACH=full]536267[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>Again, something I conjured up. This is likely the most common topic for me at the office. I am going to end up making a video. Pinion angle is likely the easiest thing ever, people just severely over-complicate it. </p><p></p><p>That said.....I recommend in that picture. The REAL deal is, you want 0 degrees. Unfortunately, you cannot always have 0 degrees... You have to pick, 0 degrees when putting around town, then have bind under WOT/Load....or do you want -2, -1, etc....then 0 degrees when abusing the car. Its a tough call, I usually leave the end decision up to the customers. What I will state, is, I do not like to see more than 3 degrees pinion angle on any combo, ever.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If they are the ones I am thinking about, they sure do look a heck of a lot like ours. So - I am fairly confident our Relo Brackets will fit with the BBK LCA. I guess the better answer is, our Brackets work with any LCA that will fit a factory S197.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ehhh....I'll save that for the DS makers. I always recommend having proper working angles on/with your drive train.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Never tested the air suspension stuff. </p><p></p><p>I would say it would be no different.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>Not really. </em>Technically, yes....but it starts getting deep when talking about particular angles enhancing initial acceleration rate, etc. A prime example would be, two cars that hook equally....but two completely different AS%....one car will be quicker to the sixty. One will not waste as much energy as the other.</p><p></p><p>Your MAIN sixty improvements at this time, assuming you are not blowing the tires off, will come from testing tire pressures (sometimes more wheel speed is better), testing timing on the hit (tune), converter flash RPM, gear, etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Middle position will <em>likely</em> be the best overall. I am unclear of your situation....although I can imagine it....can you post a pic?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Tab location really isn't that crucial....assuming the links are adjusted properly. (minimal preload is preferred)</p><p></p><p>As for the hole that works best, the closest hole to the main bar (shorter lever arm) will ALWAYS work better on our bar, at the drag-strip. </p><p></p><p>Hole 1 is 854% more stiff than the stock style sway bar. (916 rate)</p><p>Hole 2 is 1055% more stiff than the stock style bar. (1109 rate)</p><p></p><p>Isn't it nice having companies to share all of this info? ;-)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Test, test, and test more. Middle should work well.</p><p></p><p>MY recommendation is:</p><p></p><p>BMR Springs</p><p>UCA in Upper Hole on BMR Upper Mount</p><p>LCA in Middle Position on BMR LCA Brackets</p><p></p><p>^ That formula is probably the best overall combination of control arm angles and the drop of BMR Springs.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BMR Tech, post: 13781603, member: 124691"] They often do, and often don't. It depends on a few things. Springs, shocks, struts, launch style/rpm, etc. I could best answer this, if I saw a video of the car. IMO, once a car gets past mid 11's with a manual trans....they need an ARB (this is generic, but close).. With an Auto, they typically start becoming a good investment when you get into the 10's, solidly. That's tough. I would need to know what the car is doing. It is very hard to blindly recommend additional parts, other than those listed, if I do not know how the car is reacting. If I had to blindly guess....adjustable front struts, UCA in the upper position, LCA in the top of the 3 holes...and some weight removal. That would do well. I think tuning would provide just as much improvement, as well as launch technique. Of course, the "system" or "package" is what makes it work at the end of the day. Actually, I rank them similar. When installing aftermarket suspension components, I HIGHLY recommend the axle being perfectly centered at static ride-height. When the axle is pushed/bias to one side...it puts strain into multiple suspension and drive train components; no bueno! Same for pinion angle. You can torque a floating style bushing/sleeve however you wish. Of course, we always tell people to TQ them loaded....but there are a few reasons behind this. When you install aftermarket UCA/LCA/PHR etc....the ONLY bolt that NEEDS to be torqued at TRUE ride-height/load...is the rear most UCA bolt to the differential. For your car, I recommend starting in the middle position of the BMR Relo Brackets. It is usually the best position. Not always, though. [B] ****THOSE READING**** [/B]Speaking of torquing at ride-height. When you have jackstands under your A-Arms, and rear axle....the suspension is NOT LOADED fully. [I]It is partially loaded.[/I] You cannot fully load the suspension / achieve static ride-height.....without having the full weight of the car sit on the front and rear tires. :beer: Currently available, if I personally had to pick, I would do the Eibach 11+ Adjustables. Bang for the buck, and just really good performing parts. I'm not huge on their springs, but, their bars are nice. We are going to release ours sometime this year. We have taken so long, for a good reason. :rolling: Ouch, that is a little more complicated than I expected. That question is a little too broad. I would say, set the car up for its primary use first....then adjust the mod list from there. You can have a GREAT auto-x set-up....then swap rear tires and unbolt the front sway bar, loosen front struts, and go fast from a roll or a drag strip. It's actually easy. Hmmm... It would take me atleast 10,000 words. This should help.....but it is very general/basic. [ATTACH=full]536266[/ATTACH] Hmm. BRM springs? Never heard of 'em! It's okay, I am still "feeling" it from New Years, too. :beer: So - everything is stock, except the [B]BMR[/B] Springs....right? If so, then you honestly may need to replace the front struts to cure your issue. Not really sure why some people experience this, and some do not. I would say that most do, but some don't realize or pay attention. If you cannot decide on struts, I would be happy to assist you. [B]LCA Relos:[/B] Here's the deal. GENERALLY speaking....you want to multiply the amount you drop the car, by 1.5 to 2...to get the amount which you want to lower the LCA down. This is just from experience....and I am NOT saying everyone needs to do so. For example, if you drop the car 1"....a 2" LCA drop is typically the best way to go. For a larger drop, I see that the drop X 1.5 seems to be more realistic. Of course, this is just a function of the geometry/properties of suspension movement. *A lot of this depends on the position of the UCA, as well. With a BMR UCA Mount...using the UPPER most position....the 1.5 or 2 factor is almost always perfect... For those reading, our LCA positions are 2", 3" and 4" from the factory mounting point. It goes SOOO much deeper - but this will get people to an excellent starting point. You won't see anyone else, ever, before I just typed this.....tell you / post that info. If they did, I told them over the phone. These are the type of things I have to conjure up, because I speak to an astronomical amount of people each and every day. At the end of the day, LCA angle needs to be adjusted to see what works best. That is always better than anything I can tell someone. [B] Adjustable UCA: [/B] This relates to the LCA mounting point. On a lowered car, I ALWAYS like to see the stock, or upper most position on the BMR UCA Mount, be utilized....while using LCA Brackets to adjust for maximized traction. We are likely the only company that specifically designs our upper mounting point on our UCA Bracket, for a lowered car. It is actually raised slightly, compared to stock. The lower position on our UCA Mount, this is almost always reserved (recommendaed by me) for people who have a stock ride-height car, AND NO LCA Brackets. That said, I do have people who experience awesome results on a lowered car, using the lower position on the UCA mount, with the top hole on the BMR brackets.....but it's not optimal to mix. That results in a much to severe Anti-Squat setting. Moral - Stock height, use BMR UCA Mount in lower hole / no relos. Lowered, use upper spot on BMR mount, with relos. [B]Pinion Angle: [/B] First off, I want to post this. Everyone should use this....it has been a life saver for me. Ignore anything else you see, this is what you do. The debate comes into play, when talking about "what" to set it at... [ATTACH=full]536267[/ATTACH] Again, something I conjured up. This is likely the most common topic for me at the office. I am going to end up making a video. Pinion angle is likely the easiest thing ever, people just severely over-complicate it. That said.....I recommend in that picture. The REAL deal is, you want 0 degrees. Unfortunately, you cannot always have 0 degrees... You have to pick, 0 degrees when putting around town, then have bind under WOT/Load....or do you want -2, -1, etc....then 0 degrees when abusing the car. Its a tough call, I usually leave the end decision up to the customers. What I will state, is, I do not like to see more than 3 degrees pinion angle on any combo, ever. If they are the ones I am thinking about, they sure do look a heck of a lot like ours. So - I am fairly confident our Relo Brackets will fit with the BBK LCA. I guess the better answer is, our Brackets work with any LCA that will fit a factory S197. Ehhh....I'll save that for the DS makers. I always recommend having proper working angles on/with your drive train. Never tested the air suspension stuff. I would say it would be no different. [I]Not really. [/I]Technically, yes....but it starts getting deep when talking about particular angles enhancing initial acceleration rate, etc. A prime example would be, two cars that hook equally....but two completely different AS%....one car will be quicker to the sixty. One will not waste as much energy as the other. Your MAIN sixty improvements at this time, assuming you are not blowing the tires off, will come from testing tire pressures (sometimes more wheel speed is better), testing timing on the hit (tune), converter flash RPM, gear, etc. Middle position will [I]likely[/I] be the best overall. I am unclear of your situation....although I can imagine it....can you post a pic? Tab location really isn't that crucial....assuming the links are adjusted properly. (minimal preload is preferred) As for the hole that works best, the closest hole to the main bar (shorter lever arm) will ALWAYS work better on our bar, at the drag-strip. Hole 1 is 854% more stiff than the stock style sway bar. (916 rate) Hole 2 is 1055% more stiff than the stock style bar. (1109 rate) Isn't it nice having companies to share all of this info? ;-) Test, test, and test more. Middle should work well. MY recommendation is: BMR Springs UCA in Upper Hole on BMR Upper Mount LCA in Middle Position on BMR LCA Brackets ^ That formula is probably the best overall combination of control arm angles and the drop of BMR Springs. [/QUOTE]
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